Published: Oct. 10, 2022, 8 a.m.
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313: People who \\u201cyes-butt\\u201d you.
People who resist exposure.
Does God exist? Does the \\u201cself\\u201d exist?
How to you justify Ellis?\\xa0
"Should" we care\\xa0about Putin\'s war on Ukraine?
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1. Rhonda asks: How can you respond to someone who yes-butts you?
2. Thomas asks: Do we have a self? Does God exist?
3. Thomas also asks: Ellis said we should upset ourselves over someone else\\u2019s problems, but how about Putin, and Russia?
Note: The answers below were generated prior to the podcast, and the information provided on the live podcast may be richer and different in a number of ways.
1. Rhonda asks: How can you respond
to someone who yes-butts you?
David\\u2019s Reply
Thanks, Rhonda. We can demonstrate this with Matt on the podcast recording later today!
Matt\\u2019s Reply:
The answer is to fall back to Empathy and try to see how we are creating the problem.\\xa0 For example, when we are giving advice, we may have fallen into a trap, in which we are getting ahead of their resistance and would want to get behind it.
As often happens, the question, and its answer, went in an unexpected direction. Rhonda, like many therapists, noticed that one of her social anxiety patients was subtly resisting exposure\\u2014facing her fears. Matt and Rhonda model how to respond to patients who keep putting off the exposure.
This answer illustrates how therapists and the general public alike can improve your use of the Five Secrets of Effective Communication (LINK) with the use of \\u201cDeliberate Practice,\\u201d with role reversals and immediate feedback on your technique.
Rhonda starts with a low grade, and then rapidly achieves an A grade!
2. Thomas asks: Do we have a self? Does God exist?
Thank you for giving me your time and attention. I appreciate it, even if we don\'t agree. I have talked about whether or not God and the self exist. David Hume made the argument about not having a self, only perception. Of course, questions arise if we don\\u2019t have a \\u201cself.\\u201d
Thomas
Thomas also comments on Nathaniel Brandon:
Why do we use the words who? Him? Her? He she they.?? I certainly don\'t believe Nathaniel Brandon\\u2019s horseshit. He talks about a teenage self, a father self, and a child self
And all that is just horseshit.
But do we have any self?
David\\u2019s response:
Hi Thomas, Thanks for your question! You ask, \\u201cBut do we have any self?\\u201d You ask about God, too.
People have been asking for my chapter on the \\u201cDeath of the Self,\\u201d and my efforts to debunk the idea of a \\u201cself.\\u201d I have not had the time and motivation to bring that chapter back to life, since it is so hard for people to \\u201cget\\u201d what I\\u2019ve been trying to say, which is exactly what Wittgenstein and the Buddha were trying to say. But I will try to share one idea with you, in the hopes that it might make sense.
As I have previously suggested, these questions about some \\u201cself\\u201d or \\u201cGod\\u201d have no meaning. For example, how about this question: \\u2018What would it look like if someone had no \\u2018self?\\u2019 What, exactly, are we talking about?
I know what this question means: \\u201cSo you think Henry is too high on himself.\\u201d This means that we think some person named Henry is arrogant or narcissistic, something like that, and we want to know if someone agrees with us. I understand this question, it makes sense. There is a distinct difference between people who are quite humble and folks who are overly impressed with themselves. So, we are talking and using words in a way that has meaning and makes sense.
However, I cannot answer the following question because it does not make any sense to me: \\u201cDoes Henry have a \\u2018self\\u2019?\\u201d So, this question, to me, is language that is out of gear, like a car in neutral gear. No matter how hard you press on the accelerator, it will not move forward or backward.
If you cannot \\u201csee\\u201d or \\u201cgrasp\\u201d the difference between my examples of a meaningful question and a nonsensical non-question, that\\u2019s okay. In my experience, few people can grasp or \\u201cget\\u201d this. But to me, the difference is quite obvious.
Is it okay if I use your email as a somewhat edited \\u201cAsk David?\\u201d I can change your name if you prefer. I don\\u2019t think people will \\u201cget\\u201d my answer, but hope springs eternal!
David
Matt\\u2019s Response
Many brilliant minds have addressed this question in more eloquent and thorough ways than I could, including the Stanford-trained neurologist and philosopher, Sam Harris, in his book, \\u2018Free Will\\u2019 and Jay Garfield in his book, \\u2018Losing Ourselves\\u2019 There\\u2019s very little I can say, about this topic, that hasn\\u2019t been said more eloquently by individuals like these and many others.
Meanwhile, I\\u2019m glad that this question has arisen on the podcast because I see clinical utility in the implications of this question, including in the treatment of depression, anxiety, anger, narcissistic pride and relationship problems.
For example, I might be thinking, \\u2018I\\u2019m so mad at my (bad) self for eating all those cookies\\u2019.\\xa0 Or, I\\u2019m so proud of myself for making a million dollars\\u2019.\\xa0 I might start to think I deserve more, because of my special self and feel superior and angry, \\u2018that persons (bad self) shouldn\\u2019t have cut me off in traffic!\\u2019.
When we take the \\u2018self\\u2019 out of the equation, we realize that these thoughts don\\u2019t make sense.\\xa0 If our brains are just following the laws of physics, without any self, jumping in there to influence the process, then we couldn\\u2019t have done differently, with the brains we had, and neither could anyone else.
Hence, the idea that people have \\u2018selves\\u2019, which can be good or bad, make decisions and the like, is a setup for suffering.\\xa0 In the cookie example, I would have to train my brain, through practice with therapy methods, to develop a different set of habits, rewiring of my brain, to reach for a salad rather than a cookie.\\xa0 I can\\u2019t simply insist that my \\u2018self\\u2019 rewire my brain for me.\\xa0 I\\u2019d have to practice and do my TEAM therapy homework!
Anger and Narcissism are some of the hardest-to-defeat problems.\\xa0 However, realizing other people are simply doing what their brains are programmed to do, takes away the anger and blame.\\xa0 Just like we wouldn\\u2019t hold a grudge for years against a wild animal that bit us, we could also forgive and accept a person who bit us.\\xa0\\xa0 and we can\\u2019t feel unnecessarily superior or proud of our \\u2018self\\u2019 if we accomplish something wonderful, because we don\\u2019t\\u2019 have a \\u2018self\\u2019 that did those things, just a brain and the right environment, neither of which we can take credit for.
This approach is called \\u2018reattribution\\u2019 in TEAM, which is useful for defeating \\u2018self-blame\\u2019 and \\u2018other (self) blame\\u2019.
Here are some other methods to leverage the no-self concept and free your mind of this hazardous way of thinking:
1. Experimental Technique:\\xa0 Try to define what a \\u2018self\\u2019 is.\\xa0 Then conduct an experiment to see whether the self is capable of doing the things you think it can do.\\xa0 For example, can your \\u2018self\\u2019 stop understanding the words you are seeing on this page?\\xa0 Or does your brain helplessly decipher the shapes of these letters into meaningful sounds and language?\\xa0 Can your self exert its free will to decide to focus exclusively on one thing for one minute, like your breath or a point on the wall?\\xa0 \\xa0 It can\\u2019t.\\xa0 If your self can\\u2019t do such simple tasks, what can it do?\\xa0 One can see meditation as a kind of \\u2018experiment\\u2019 to see whether our \\u2018self\\u2019 is calling the shots, using its free will, or if our brains are just doing what brains do.
2. Socratic Questioning: You can ask questions that can\\u2019t be answered to show that the \\u2018self\\u2019 is more like a \\u2018unicorn\\u2019 than a cat.\\xa0 For example, how big is the \\u2018self\\u2019?\\xa0 What\\u2019s it made of? Where is it located?\\xa0 Can you see it on a MRI?\\xa0 No radiologist has ever visualized a \\u2018self\\u2019 and you probably realize you can\\u2019t answer these questions, any more than you can, \\u2018what do Unicorns like to eat?\\u2019, bringing us closer to understanding that it\\u2019s probably a made up thing.
3. Examine the Evidence: What evidence is there that there\\u2019s a Self?\\xa0 What evidence is there that there is no self? On the latter side, Consider Occam\\u2019s Razor, which suggests that the better hypothesis is the simpler one which still explains the observations.\\xa0 One hypothesis is we have a brain generating consciousness.\\xa0 Another hypothesis is that we have a brain that generates consciousness and a self that is having those experiences, operating the brain.\\xa0 Based on Occam\\u2019s Razor, the better hypothesis is the former, that we have a brain creating consciousness.
4. Outcome Resistance: People get scared off by the idea that there\\u2019s no self or free will, that their brain is making decisions, without a self intervening.\\xa0 In Christian Tradition, for example, Thomas Aquinas essentially invented the concept of \\u2018free will\\u2019 so that God\\u2019s punishment of Adam and Eve could be explained, morally.
Otherwise, God would seem rather cruel, to create a system where he knew that would happen.\\xa0 This is an example of how \\u2018free will\\u2019 and the \\u2018self\\u2019 are linked to blame and anger.
Even if you don\\u2019t believe in God, you might be concerned that the idea that there is no free will would mean that the criminal justice system would fall apart.\\xa0 Criminals could say, \\u2018I had no choice\\u2019.\\xa0 Talking back to these elements of \\u2018resistance\\u2019 could help free one\\u2019s mind.
For example, without free will, it\\u2019s true that blaming other people and retaliatory justice wouldn\\u2019t make sense.\\xa0 However, one could still enforce laws, only in a compassionate way, for the sake of protecting others making the same mistake. \\xa0A murderer, if they realized this, could mind meaning in fulfilling their sentence, realizing they were doing a service to humanity, rather than being punished for their bad self.\\xa0 Instead of seeing other people as having \\u2018bad\\u2019 selves, we can have a sense of sadness, connection and concern, even with a murderer, when carrying out justice, understanding that, \\u2018there but for the grace of God, go I\\u2019.
David mentions, in passing, a mild red flag with the concept of "free will." He points out that this is another concept, like "God" or the "self," that has no meaning, if you really grasp what Ludwig Wittgenstein was trying to say in his classic book, Philosophical Investigations. One way to "see" this, although it is admittedly almost impossible to "see:" because it is so simple and obvious, would be to ask yourself, "What would it look like if we "had" something called "free will?" And what would it look like if we "didn\'t?"
The question is NOT "do we have free will," but rather, "Does this concept have any meaning? Once you suddenly "see" that the answer is no, you will be liberated from many philosophical dilemmas. But as they say, enlightenment can be a lonely road!
the Buddha, as well as Wittgenstein, ran into this problem that people could not "grasp" the simple and obvious things they were trying so hard to say! As humans, we get spellbound by the words we using, thinking that nouns, like "self," must refer to some "thing" that either exists or doesn\'t exist! To my way of thinking the question is NOT "Does god exist" or "do human have free will," but rather, do these questions make sense? Do they mean anything?
The answer, to my way of thinking (DB), is no.
However, . . . you might not "get" this!
3. Thomas also asks about Dr. Albert Ellis
Hi David,
Do you agree with Ellis that one is better off without making oneself upset over other people\'s problems?
What about Putin and Russia and all the violence, another mass shooting, and trump running for president again?
Ellis didn\'t think one should be disturbed about these things. Or at least upset. What do you think?
David\\u2019s reply
Hi Thomas:
Here\\u2019s my take. Healthy and appropriate negative feelings exist! One SHOULD be upset by horrific war crimes. I suspect that if Beck and Ellis, were they still alive, they would both strongly agree, but of course, I cannot speak for them!
Thanks for listening today!
Matt, Rhonda, and David!
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