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Published: Nov. 1, 2023, 8 a.m.

To deepen our current relationships, or to develop new ones, it\u2019s helpful to ask ourselves an important question. Namely, \u201cHow do I have a meaningful conversation with someone?\u201d Today\u2019s episode will give you a few ideas to help you answer this question.

But before we get into today\u2019s episode, here\u2019s what this podcast is all about.\xa0

\xa0Welcome to You Were Made for This

If you find yourself wanting more from your relationships, you\u2019ve come to the right place. Here you\u2019ll discover practical principles you can use to experience the life-giving relationships you were made for.

I\u2019m your host, John Certalic, award-winning author and relationship coach, here to help you find more joy in the relationships God designed for you.

To access all past and future episodes, go to the bottom of this page to the yellow "Subscribe" button, then enter your name and email address in the fields above it. The episodes are organized chronologically and are also searchable by topics, categories, and keywords.

A meaningful conversation with my barber

One way to find this joy God designed for us is to consider how we can have meaningful conversations with people. \u201cMeaningful\u201d doesn\u2019t necessarily have to mean \u201cdeep.\u201d If you listened to the episode prior to this one, #204, you may recall the woman on the NextDoor app who posted that she wanted to have 40 \u201cdeep conversations\u201d before she turned 40.

As it turns out she was really looking for 40 people to sign up for her life coaching business.\xa0 I heard from some of you that you were angry with the woman for misleading people like this.

Now I\u2019m going to save deep conversations for another time, and I have no life coaching advice for anyone. Well, except for one thing. Grown men over 60 should tuck their shirts in when out in public. It will keep your mom happy, if she\u2019s still alive. It will honor her legacy if she\u2019s no longer with us. That\u2019s the extent of my life coaching advice for today.

As for meaningful conversations, they don\u2019t have to be deep in order to derive a measure of joy from them. And you don\u2019t always have to create them, because sometimes they just come to you like a stray dog or cat who appears on your doorstep and welcomes themself in.

For example, several years ago I was sitting in the chair in a barber shop when my barber, Paul, asked me what I was going to do the rest of the day when I was done with my haircut.

\u201cStain my deck this afternoon,\u201d I said.

\u201cI\u2019ve been putting it off because I don\u2019t like being on my knees putting the stain on with a paintbrush. But the job needs to be done.\u201d

The most meaningful conversation I had that day

Paul then said, \u201cYou know they make special brushes for putting down stain on decks. They\u2019re about 6 inches wide and an inch and a half thick. You screw any standard-size pole, like you use for a broom, into a hole in the brush. This allows you to dip the brush into the pail of stain and put it down on the wood without ever bending down or kneeling. Most hardware stores carry this kind of brush.\u201d

After my haircut I went straight to a nearby hardware store, bought the kind of brush Paul described, and started staining my deck just as Paul described. What was once a burdensome task now became something quite easy. All because of this meaningful conversation while sitting in a barber\u2019s chair.

The meaning in my conversation with Paul is that he shared something that made my life better. He shared the knowledge and experience he had to ease a difficulty in my life. It wasn\u2019t a deep conversation by any means, but it brought me joy in knowing how to complete a task in a new and less painful way. It really lifted my spirits.\xa0

To have this meaningful conversation with Paul all I did was engage in small talk and share what was on my mind. When you do the same thing with a good listener, there\u2019s the possibility are you\u2019ll get into a meaningful conversation, too.

Dinner party

Another meaningful conversation happened just recently when Janet and I were invited to dinner at\xa0 the home of one of our couple friends. Another\xa0 husband and wife who moved away many years ago were in town and they were invited, too. The six of us have been friends for decades.

As the six of us were eating, the subject came up of the first house each of us lived in and the memories we had of those homes. It was interesting to hear each person recall what was memorable for them. One memory shared in this conversation that stood out for me was one shared by the hostess, who I will call \u201cSarah.\u201d\xa0 It\u2019s not her real name, but she\u2019d be embarrassed to no end if I told you who she really was, so I\u2019ll just call her Sarah.

A visit from Dad

Anyway, Sarah shared a memory of her and her husband\u2019s first house, that in all the many years I have known them I had never heard before. She said a favorite memory was how her dad on occasion would come and visit her on his day off. He was a mail carrier is a town about 75 miles away.\xa0

\u201cHe would drive all that way and then sit in our living room and read the newspaper. It\u2019s a favorite memory of mine, being in the same small living room with him while he read the paper.\u201d

Sarah was a young mom at the time with two small children when her father would come and spend the day with her.

The smile and look on her face told me this was something special. I had heard stories about her father before, of the kind man he was. Sarah\u2019s husband spoke fondly of him, too.\xa0 On the days he would visit he came alone. Sarah\u2019s mother stayed home. To me, it seemed fitting that way, as her relationship with her mother was, well, very different from her relationship with her dad.

A meaningful conversation without words

Even though no one else said much as she shared her story, I found it to be a meaningful conversation among the six of us. Sarah, as long as I\u2019ve known her, has been one of the kindest, most loving and gentle people I\u2019ve known. I learned this night when she shared her story where she got these qualities. She got them from her dad.\xa0

Her dad\u2019s legacy lives on through Sarah. She places a high value on relationships as he did, and she is kind and gentle, too.

I mean, who would spend their day off from work to drive 150 miles and 2\xbd hours round trip to just be with his daughter? Not to do anything special, just to sit in her living room reading the newspaper.

I found both sadness and joy in this meaningful conversation. Sadness that Sarah\u2019s mother related to her so differently. Sadness in knowing that her dad died quite young. I think he was only 54. I found joy in knowing this memory of Sarah\u2019s father and how the way he spent his day off still has a special place in her heart.\xa0

There was also the Joy in seeing her dad in Sarah. Their shared qualities of kindness and gentleness. And Joy in knowing an example of how a father can love his adult daughter.\xa0 I want to be remembered by my daughter and son like this after I\u2019m gone.\xa0

What makes a conversation meaningful?

I like to think a meaningful conversation is one where there is an exchange of meaning. And it doesn\u2019t necessarily have to involve words. The conversation with my barber about the deck stain brush certainly involved words. He shared his knowledge and experience that was meaningful to me. It was a solution to a problem I had, which I appreciated.

Now, you and I have been in conversations filled with lots of words, many words, but without any meaning being exchanged. You know what I\u2019m talking about. When people fill the air with their own voice, where they talk just to talk, devoid of anything meaningful to you. They give you information or opinions you didn\u2019t ask for that mean nothing to you. You are not asked any questions in a conversation like this. It\u2019s more a monologue than a conversation.\xa0

This wasn\u2019t the case at all with Sarah sharing a favorite memory from the first house. There were few words, but lots of meaning was exchanged because we listened. Listening based on what we all remembered about Sarah\u2019s background. Listening by observing her facial expression. And then listening by entering into Sarah\u2019s story as we imagined what it must have been like for her, and for her dad, and his occasional visits to her home.\xa0

Sarah shared her memory with only a few words, yet it was filled to the brim with meaning.\xa0

Words not needed

If Sarah had used words to convey the meaning of her conversation it would have gone something like, \u201cMy dad thought I was important enough to use his day off from work to come and spend time time with me. Even if it was to just sit in our living room reading the newspaper. That was enough for both of us. It was all we needed, to be together like that. This was a favorite memory of mine from the first house owned.\u201d

Yeah, something like these words would have described it. But we didn\u2019t need the words. We saw it and more in her face. The meaning I came away with from this meaningful conversation was joy for Sarah. Joy that she had such a loving relationship with her dad. It reminded me of that Walt Whitman quote I love,\xa0

\u201cWe were together, I forgot the rest.\u201d

So what about YOU?\xa0

I wonder what meaningful conversations you\u2019ve had lately. What have you done to make them meaningful? What exchange of meaning has taken place between you and another person?

And I especially wonder what meaningful conversations presented themselves to you, like the sun peeking around the edge of grey clouds after a sprinkle of rain? I\u2019d love to hear about any conversations like this.

Closing

And speaking of the sun peeking out from clouds, as we close up shop for today, don\u2019t forget to spread a little relational sunshine around the people you meet this week. Spark some joy for them.\xa0 And I\u2019ll see you again next time. Goodbye for now.

Other episodes or resources related to today\u2019s shows

139: Why Should I Listen to This Podcast?

021: The Most Important Relationship of All

Prior and most recent episode \xa0\xa0 204: Deep Conversations

All past and future episodes\xa0 \xa0 JohnCertalic.com

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