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Published: July 20, 2022, 8 a.m.

I have been thinking about what makes for meaningful conversations with people. This thought was prompted by a quote I saw in a desk calendar my daughter gave me for this year. It\u2019s the quote for May 16th which reads:

\u201cYou cannot talk butterfly language with caterpillar people.\u201d

It's the topic of today's episode.

To access future episodes it\u2019s easiest if you go to JohnCertalic.com, and scroll halfway down the page where you enter your name and email address. Then click on the follow or subscribe button. You\u2019ll get a brief email each week from me with a link to the latest episode, together with a description of what it\u2019s about.

A useful metaphor

For today I want to think out loud about this idea of meaningful conversations, and several ways of considering this based on the quote I mentioned in the beginning, \u201cyou cannot talk butterfly language with caterpillar people.\u201d

I like this butterfly/caterpillar metaphor for a couple of reasons. One way of looking at it would suggest butterfly people have a language caterpillar people don\u2019t understand because they haven\u2019t quite arrived yet like Butterfly people have. It may not be what the author intended, but it comes off a bit condescending. I\u2019ve been in conversations where the person talking clearly views themself as a butterfly person looking down their nose at the caterpillars in the group. I bet you\u2019ve seen this too. It\u2019s hard to have a meaningful conversation when this is dynamic is present.

On the other hand, there is something beautiful about a butterfly person who remembers what it was like to be a caterpillar with all its limitations, and who has a great appreciation for the metamorphosis he or she has been through.

These are the patient people among us, usually older and wiser. People tolerant and understanding of those in a stage of life where they once were. Meaningful conversations with butterfly people like this are often filled with grace and wisdom. They understand caterpillar people haven\u2019t yet been through what they\u2019ve been through. They don\u2019t have the words, the language, to process what Butterfly people have come to experience.

An obstacle to meaningful conversations

Another example of an obstacle to a meaningful conversation is when parents try to reason their young children into obedience using butterfly language. When they explain the logic and motives behind their well-meaning directives. It usually doesn\u2019t work, because young kids are caterpillars and they don\u2019t understand butterfly language.

Instead, parents need to speak caterpillar language to kids that goes something like this, \u201cyou need to obey what I\u2019m telling you because you need to obey. That\u2019s your job right now, simply to obey, regardless of what you want to do. When you get older and are able to understand, I\u2019ll explain why I\u2019m telling you to obey. But for now, you don\u2019t need to know why, you just need to obey.\u201d

This issue of teaching children to obey is an important one that we\u2019ll talk about in a future episode.

The "curse of knowledge" hinders communication

Another reason it\u2019s hard to have meaningful conversations sometimes is because of the curse of knowledge. It\u2019s the concept that you know something so well, so intimately, that it\u2019s difficult to imagine what it was like to NOT KNOW what you know. And because you can\u2019t imagine what it\u2019s like to not know something, you have difficulty in passing on your knowledge to someone who doesn\u2019t have it. You try, but it\u2019s hard because you forgot what it\u2019s like to be on the other side of the knowledge.

Computer people are like this. They have the curse of knowledge because they assume you know what they know, or at least have a piece of rudimentary knowledge of technical stuff. They talk in butterfly language, but you only speak caterpillar. So there\u2019s a disconnect and a barrier to a meaningful conversation when it comes to fixing a computer problem.

On an interpersonal level, relationships can be difficult when people speak different emotional languages. Janet and I have a friend who grew up in a dysfunctional family, where everything revolved around pleasing Mom. Keeping Mom happy was the mission of her husband and each of the 3 kids. And Mom let everyone know when she wasn\u2019t happy and who in the family failed in their role of keeping her happy. Guilt and shame were dished out as regularly as a weekly allowance.

A friend who learned butterfly language

As an adult, our friend went for counseling to deal with this emotional baggage, and over time grew healthy because she learned a butterfly language that helped her process her experience in healthy ways. She even learned how to speak her mother\u2019s caterpillar language which on occasion even led to meaningful conversations.

Sadly, her siblings didn\u2019t do the same. As adults, they continue trying to please Mom. But it\u2019s never enough. It never is with people who live to be served, rather than to serve. Unlike our friend who went for counseling to learn a new language, her siblings moved to other parts of the country so as to have as little contact with Mom as possible. They continue to speak caterpillar to this day.

Let\u2019s go back to parenting for a moment. Parents sometimes suffer from the curse of knowledge. We can\u2019t remember what it was like to be a kid. To be afraid as a child. To be rejected by one\u2019s friends. Or to be frustrated with not knowing how to do something your peers do with ease.

This curse of knowledge can get in the way of meaningful conversations between parents and their children.

So what does all this mean for YOU?

If you\u2019re a butterfly person in your relationships, it would really help if you thought back to what it was like when you were a caterpillar. Back then, you didn\u2019t know what you didn\u2019t know.

The same is true for the caterpillar people in your life right now. They don\u2019t know what they don\u2019t know, either. So cut them some slack, give them a break. They probably won\u2019t respond as well to you TELLING them how fulfilling it is to be a butterfly in your relationships. Show them instead. In relationships, caterpillar people crawl. Show them as a butterfly person they can fly!

And if you\u2019re a caterpillar right now, watch the butterfly people around you. Do what they do to have meaningful conversations. Don\u2019t stay stuck in your relationships. Break out of your cocoon. You were made for something more. Don\u2019t settle for crawling when you could be flying.

Here\u2019s the main takeaway I hope you remember from today\u2019s episode

A path to meaningful conversations between people starts with working to understand others and their frame of reference, even when it\u2019s very different from your own. To learn to speak the language of another is work, but it\u2019s worth it.

Closing

In closing, I\u2019d love to hear any thoughts you have about today\u2019s episode. I hope your thinking was stimulated to work toward being a butterfly person with compassion for the caterpillars in your life.

For when you do, it will help you experience the joy of relationships God intends for you. Because after all, You Were Made for This.

Well, that\u2019s it for today. Please consider telling others about this podcast if you think it would be interesting and helpful to them. And don\u2019t forget to spread a little relational sunshine around the people you meet this week. Spark some joy for them. And I\u2019ll see you again next time.

Another episode you may want to listen to

139: Why Should I Listen to This Podcast?

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