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As Ukraine\u2019s counteroffensive grinds on, it\u2019s increasingly turning to a secret drone program that is hitting targets deep inside Russian territory. At least three different Ukrainian-made drones have been used in attacks inside Russia, including on Moscow, according to an analysis by The New York Times.\n\nChristiaan Triebert, a journalist on The Times\u2019s Visual Investigations team, explains the origins of that program. We also speak to Serhiy Prytula, a former Ukrainian television host who is now a key force behind it.\n\nGuest: Christiaan Triebert, a journalist on The New York Times\u2019s Visual Investigations team.