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Basecamp founder, New York Times best-selling author, and web software pioneer Jason Fried is Jeffrey Zeldman\\u2019s guest. The two discuss Jason\\u2019s latest book (co-authored with David Heinemeier Hannson), It Doesn\\u2019t Have to be Crazy at Work, which The Economist called \\u201cby far the best thing on management published this year.\\u201d Also: the secrets of Basecamp, the magic of sleep, the sameness of agencies\\u2019 portfolio sites, why Basecamp doesn\\u2019t user test, and more.

Note: We apologize for Jeffrey\'s audio quality in this episode, but Jason Fried says so many smart things we decided we had to share this conversation anyway. It\'s worth it!

Links for this episode:

• Jason Fried (@jasonfried) | Twitter
  
• Basecamp: Project Management & Team Communication Software
  
• It Doesn't Have to Be Crazy at Work: Jason Fried, David Heinemeier Hansson: 9780062874788: Amazon.com: Books
  
• The 37signals Manifesto (our original site from 1999)
  
• Jason Fried \\u2013 Medium
  
• Signal v. Noise
  
• Jason Fried (Author of Rework)
  
• Jason Fried | Speaker | TED
  
• Amazon.com: Remote: Office Not Required eBook: Jason Fried, David Heinemeier Hansson: Kindle Store
  
• Rework: Jason Fried, David Heinemeier Hansson: 9780307463746: Amazon.com: Books
  
• Getting Real: The Smarter, Faster, Easier Way to Build a Successful Web Application: Jason Fried, David Heinemeier Hansson, Matthew Linderman: 9780578012810: Amazon.com: Books