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I first heard Kelsey speak during his 2017 PyCon keynote. He's an amazing speaker, and I knew right then I wanted to hear more about what he does and hear more of his story. We discuss testing, of course, but we take it further and discuss: tests for large systems, like kubernetes Testing in real world scenarios with all the configuration and everything Becoming a complete engineer by thinking about the end to end flow from the users perspective Learning from other roles, and the value of roles to allow focus and expertise We even get into Chaos Engineering and testing live systems. Special Guest: Kelsey Hightower.