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Jonathan and Jeff continue their conversation on the philosophical magic show, Derek DelGaudio's In & Of Itself -- and this time they spend more than five minutes talking about it! While this episode doesn't contain spoilers from the show, we would highly recommend watching it first if you are able! This time around, they spend a lot more time talking about the show itself. They talk about Jeff's disappointment with magic shows in general and what that feeling might signal. Does it signal a deep desire to know the "in and of itself" of reality? What does it mean to want a deeper reality than the reality that you are stuck with? They talk about the difference between tricks versus magic, the love of fantasy novels (any Dragonlance fans out there still?), Jonathan's brilliant Junior High ping pong career, C.S. Lewis's friend Charles Williams' interest in real magic, Rosicrucians, miracles and magic and the unexplainable givenness of reality, and the Four Horsemen of the New Atheist Apocalypse (but mostly just Daniel Dennett and only briefly). Topics that are raised in DelGaudio's show trigger conversations about what it means to be part of a place and how this creates identity, what it means to "be told who you are" by others now vs. historically, and more. Jeff also talks about American Idol in a way that suggests he doesn't realize it hasn't been a current reference for several years.

Warning that there may be some small, brief spoilers about The Prestige, which is a movie that came out 15 years ago, so hopefully you've already seen it.

Show Notes:

• Derek DelGaudio's In and Of Itself: https://store.cineplex.com/Product/derek-delgaudios-in-of-itself
• "The Sorcerer's Apprentice" from Walt Disney's Fantasia
• "Waiting for a Miracle" by Yes Nice (about the artist Bas Jan Ader) 
• Consciousness Explained by Daniel Dennett: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Consciousness_Explained
• The American Barbecue Showdown: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_American_Barbecue_Showdown
• The Hurt Locker: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Hurt_Locker
• The Inoperative Community by Jean-Luc Nancy: https://www.upress.umn.edu/book-division/books/the-inoperative-community

Music:

Theme Music: "What u Thinkin? (Instrumental)" by Wataboi on Pixabay

Intermission Music: "Lazy Morning" by Tim Moor on Pixabay