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b'During our exploration of the Frankish Papacy, Dr. Rutger Kramer has been our academic hero, providing access to sources, and inspiring thought-provoking discussions that resulted in much more informative episodes. So it only seemed right that we invite him on to the show, to provide his expertise!\\nIn this episode, Bry and Rutger discuss the concepts of power, state, and church for both the Carolingians and the Papacy, the complicated dynamics of the Carolingian-Papal relationship, and critically evaluating our contemporary sources!\\nFind Rutger:https://twitter.com/AnotherAspirin'