Podcasts Health Lunch and Learn with Dr. Berry LLP109: Learn about the importance of therapy with Dr. Joy Harden Bradford

LLP109: Learn about the importance of therapy with Dr. Joy Harden Bradford

Published: May 22, 2019, 10 a.m.

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Let\'s Talk about Mental Health Therapy...

On this week\'s episode of the Lunch and Learn with Dr. Berry we have Dr. Joy Harden Bradford, who is a Licensed Psychologist, Speaker, Media Personality, and the host of the wildly popular mental health podcast, Therapy for Black Girls.

This week Dr. Joy lends her expertise to help teach the Lunch and Learn Community about the importance of therapy, how to know when therapy is right for you and helps us fight off the misconceptions with therapy.

We also get to talk a bit of shop with Dr. Joy about the origin and motivation for Therapy for Black Girls, some of the hurdles she faced along her way what keeps her going on to the next venture.

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Introduction

Dr. Berry:
And welcome everybody to another episode of the Lunch and Learn with Dr. Berry. I\\u2019m your host, Dr. Berry Pierre, your favorite Board Certified Internist. Founder of Pierre Medical Consulting, helping you empower yourself for better health with the number one podcast for patient advocacy here on Lunch and Learn with yours truly, Dr. Berry. And today we bring you a special guest on a special topic. For those who have been rock with me from pretty much way back when, you know that a big thing with me has always been mental health and the importance of mental health especially on the total body health wise. Because I talked, I say this all the time that, you know, I can give you all the medications I want. I can, prescribe all the regimens I can, but I understand that if I don\'t make sure your mental health is in order, it\'s not going to matter. Right?
Like your blood pressure isn\'t going to be controlled. Your diabetes isn\'t going to be controlled and mentally just aren\'t there to want to take control of those things. Right? So I always stress mental health and of course, obviously my wife\'s being a therapist, makes me a little bit biased, but I truly believe that the importance of getting our mental health together is paramount and I think that\'s why they dedicate a whole month, especially depending on when you\'re listening to this episode, a whole month, a mental health awareness and just really understanding that there\\u2019s stigma, understanding that there\'s help and I knew I could not do this episode any justice, right? I thought bringing someone who not only specializes in mental health, but it has really taking that to the next level with the formation of an entire directory of podcasts, books, everything under the sun, kind of related to the brand in mental health.

So this episode we have Dr. Joy Harden Bradford who is a licensed psychologist. She\'s a speaker, media personality and of course, the host of the popular mental health podcast - Therapy for Black Girls. Her work focuses on making mental health topics more relevant and accessible for black women and specializes in creating spaces for black women to have a fuller and healthier relationship with themselves along with some others. And she\'s been featured almost everywhere. She\'s been featured on the Oprah magazine, Forbes, Bustle, Black Enterprise, Teen Vogue, Refinery29, Essence magazine. She currently lives in Atlanta, Georgia now with her husband and two sons. So it\'s definitely a guest of honor and you know, one that I\'ve admired for the past couple of years. So of course, when this topic came up, a mental health and we were going on and deciding like, hey, who could really, you know, bring the extra off to Lunch and Learn community. The list was very short and of course she was on top of it. Right. So again, get ready for another amazing episode here on Lunch and Learn with Dr. Berry. If you have not had a chance, make sure you subscribe to the podcast. Leave a 5-star review and obviously tell a friend to tell a friend that, hey, we\'re talking about mental health, we\'re talking about therapy. We\'re talking about getting ourselves together if you want in this new year, like the way it needs to end. Right? Thank you and have a blessed day.


Episode

Dr. Berry:
Alright, Lunch and Learn community again you heard an amazing introduction from person who I\'ve admired from afar and I even got a chance to admire her close. Actually a friend of my wife\'s and I was able to kind of sneak in from association, definitely thankful you know for to talk about such an important topic. Of course I\'m biased. Mental health is one of the essential things in medicine in general that I know. You know if you\\u2019re mental healthy together, it\'ll matter what I do with your blood pressure, no matter what I do with your cholesterol, diabetes. If your mental health ain\'t there, it\'s always going to be a problem. And of course, my wife being mental therapist, make sure she presses that bias and make sure I\'m always on my p\'s and q\'s, as we celebrate this month, mental health awareness month.

I said, you know what, we had a short list of names of people we wanted to get in and get on the show and kind of talk and educate Lunch and Learn community on such an important topic. And I think everyone, again, when you\'re doing your wellness exams, you know, I think that should be one of the first questions which actually. And now that it\'s starting to become now for a lot of different reasons, but well, can talk about that later. Dr. Joy thank you for joining this episode of the Lunch and Learn.

Dr. Joy Harden Bradford:
Thank you so much for having me Dr. Berry.

Dr. Berry:
Dr. Joy when we talk about mental health and, and I\'ve talked about it ad nauseum, the show in general. Because you know, I believe and is important. And again, like I said, my wife\'s a therapist so you know, she definitely makes sure she stresses it on me. But as an outpatient clinical physician, as an inpatient clinical physician and I see that the different ranges of what happens when it\'s not put together.

And again, for those who are in Lunch and Learn community, again, May is mental health awareness month. I know you guys love facts, right? So of course we\'re going to, you kind of hit you with a lot of home facts. But again, I really want to make sure we really kind of pay attention to who that on the show, because again, this is, you know, a special person definitely in our eyes, especially when it come to the topic of mental health awareness. So Dr. Joy before we get into all that, you know, I talked a little bit about you in your bio, but could you explain to people, you know, Lunch and Learn community who you are, why you do the things that you do and why you\'re so amazing?

Dr. Joy Harden Bradford:
Yeah. Well thank you for that opportunity. I always appreciate a chance to share more about what I\'m good I got going on. So I am a licensed psychologist in Georgia. Most of my career has been working in college mental health, which I still have a very soft spot in my heart for because I love college students and still have a few of them in my practice. But my job full time now really is the therapy for black girls podcast as well as the therapist directory that is also housed on the therapy for black girls website. So you know, the therapy for black girls\\u2019 mission is really to make mental health topics more relevant and accessible for black women and girls. And so all of the content that we put out, all the conversations that we have with our community are centering around helping black women and girls to prioritize their mental health. And so the fact that I get to do this as like my work is like still a surprise to me because it feels like so much fun that I don\'t even consider it work sometimes.

Dr. Berry:
I love it. Again we\'re definitely gonna dedicate a good portion on just the therapy for black girl because I like, I\'m so amazed, a mission. But I\'m pretty sure when you first started, like I said, we will talk about it. Like when you first started doing probably wasn\'t a mission that was well traveled, pressure you will probably the first to do it. So I definitely can\'t wait to kind of get in to talk about specifically, you know, that therapy for black girls and just that brand and that imprint in general. When we talk about mental health awareness month guys and Lunch and Learn community, again, I know you guys love facts, right? So we\'re just gonna give you some unfortunate, right? And I hate these, have these facts, unfortunate facts that are out there that really kind of drive home the point why we need to have a whole month.

And really, like I said, every month, like I said, for every disease that has this month, it really is a 12-month thing. But you know, you got to celebrate when you celebrate. So from a mental health standpoint, one of five adults in the US will experience some type of mental health condition in a given year, right? That\'s one in five, about 47 million adults face, you know, mental health illnesses on a daily basis. Right. So again, just from a numbers standpoint, this isn\'t something that every now and then person may fuss. A lot of people suffer from this disease process in that regards. Half of all lifetime mental health conditions begin at the age of 14 young, like 14 I think about it, think about what we were doing right at the age of 14 right? And to think that a lot of people are experiencing mental health issues even at that early age. Just so we can understand that, again, this isn\'t something that just affects, you know, when you get out of college and when you hit 18 or when you hit that and when you get out to houses something, you know, you\'re in middle school and 14 is the middle school age and you\'re dealing with a lot of these stresses that a moment sure you\'re not prepared to deal with.

Suicide. We talked about suicidal out here as a 10th leading cause of death right here in the United States. And we know about 90% of those who suffer from suicide have some form of mental health illness kind of associated with it. Right? So again, this isn\\u2019t, you know, unfortunately, this isn\'t a one off thing, right? A lot of people suffer from mental health related issues and it really is a big problem. And in that regards, right? So Dr. Joy when we talk about like mental health and you know, the fact that yes, they do say, you know what, let\'s focus a whole month on it. Right? Like what does that mean for you, especially for your practice as you were kind of coming up along the ranks?

Dr. Joy Harden Bradford:
Yeah. I think it\'s really important. Like you said Dr. Berry, that we continue to have this conversations not only in May, but you know, kind of all year long because when you look at those numbers, it\'s very likely that you, or somebody in your life has struggled with maybe a mental illness in your lives or that you will, right? And so I think a part of what happens during mental health awareness month is that we see lots of conversations about like symptoms and signs to be aware of, which I think is really important because a lot of times people, like the person who is struggling, is not the first person who recognize that something\'s going on. Right? A lot of times it is the people in our lives who will say, hey, something\'s going on. You know, she doesn\'t seem like herself or, you know, it seems like something\'s different there. And so I do think it\'s important for people to kind of have a general awareness of like the signs and symptoms of mental illness so that they can intervene in other people\'s lives or can recognize it by themselves if it comes to that.

Dr. Berry:
So when we talk about mental health and just making sure we\'re kind of recognizing and what are some of the things that kind of help kind of motivate you. Right? Especially because as a champion of mental health in the position that you\'re in, what have been some of the biggest motivation and say, hey guys, we need to wake up especially when we talk about people back. We need to wake up and this isn\'t really an issue that everyone needs to be like all hands off.

Dr. Joy Harden Bradford:
Yeah. I think like I mentioned in the beginning, because a lot of my background has been in working on in college counseling centers, I often will be working with, you know, students when they see the first signs of this. Right. So a lot of times they\'re away from home. They have to be conversations with parents and other loved ones. And so I feel like that has given me a really unique vantage point about what this looks like and how it impacts so many different areas of your lives.

I do think it is important to, you know, like I said, to recognize the signs and symptoms as early as you can so that you can get the help that you need. A lot of times, especially for black women, the people are, you know, kind of walking around in silence and really struggling and either don\'t know that they are struggling with a mental health concern or they don\'t want to admit it to themselves. And so, you know, especially with the work that I do for Therapy for Black Girls, that\'s why it\'s really important for me to make sure that we\'re having these kinds of conversations and to make sure that people know it\'s okay to reach out for help if you feel like you\'re struggling.

Dr. Berry:
And kind of going, you know, kind of segwaying right on that when we talk about the reaching out for help and someone kind of makes that connections, hey, you know what? I think I have a problem that I need some assistance, right? When we hear the word therapy, right? Especially in the general kind of public sort of thing. Right? What does that kind of mean? Right? Because I think when we hear therapy, I mean a lot of different things for a lot of different people.

Dr. Joy Harden Bradford:
Yeah, it does. And I don\'t know that it\'s always a positive connotation, right? Because usually I think we think about a therapist when there is a crisis, right? So you know, somebody is maybe struggling with like severe depression or they\'re really anxious or maybe they\\u2019re hearing things or they feel suicidal. Like I think in those situations we readily kinda think about a therapist. But I also like to encourage people to think about the fact that a therapist is not just for a crisis situation. In many cases it actually can prevent a crisis situation if you talk to a therapist before we get to the crisis.

So at the first signs that you\'re seeing, you know something\'s off with your sleep or something\'s different with your appetite or you\'re not enjoying things like you used to. Whatever it just kind of feels a little different that can be a great reason to go and talk with the therapist. And therapist can also just give you great information, help you talk through things that are just good for your own personal development. So there are very few things that you couldn\'t just talk with a therapist about that would likely improve some area of your life.

Dr. Berry:
I love that. Lunch and Learn community, I hope you caught that, we\\u2019re prevention, right? We stress it a lot, right? When we talk about blood pressure, wellness, we stress prevention a lot when it comes to the medical, right? But like again, I want us to really take this show and make sure that we\'re understanding that our mental health is extremely important.
Preventively you should be going to see a therapist before you get to that point, right? But again, before you come see Dr. Berry, right? Before you get the heart attack, hopefully I can give you some blood pressure medications, right? And before you have that mental health breakdown, hopefully, you can see your therapist and try to prevent that. So I love that drive and that goal of prevention, prevention, that even stems into the therapy work. And I know you get this all the time, right? Like what does somebody who\'s the common misconceptions kind of really associated negatively and maybe even positively with therapy, right? What are some of the issue that you kind of have, the hurdles that you have to kind of go over to get someone to really accept?

Dr. Joy Harden Bradford:
Yeah, that\'s a great question Dr. Berry. So one of the biggest ones we just talked about, which is the idea that you only see a therapist in crisis. That\'s one of the big ones. Another one is, well, how is talking to a therapist different than talking to my friend, right? Like, I have friends who can listen to me and of course your friends may be great and they can be helpful and supportive, but your friends are biased also, right? So they have all this history about you, they know all this stuff about you as opposed to a therapist who is a objective party who only sees you in their office. That\'s why you don\'t hang out with your therapist on the weekends and you don\'t go play golf with your therapist. Their whole reason that there are those boundaries around the therapeutic relationship and so that you can come into the therapist\'s office and say things that you likely would not tell your friends because of judgment or you know, whatever it is.

So you know, in some ways it is like a conversation with your friend. But in a lot of ways, it\'s very different because we are not in any other area of your life. And we\'re also bound by confidentiality, right? So how many times have you had the experience of talking to a friend and you tell them don\'t tell, but then they tell your other best friend anyway, right? That\'s not going to happen with your therapist, you know? So that\'s a huge part of our ethical guidelines and a licensed to protect clients is that we don\'t talk about what\'s going on in the office with our client, unless it\'s to keep them safe or keep someone else. So the confidentially piece I think is also huge. Another big misconception I\'ve heard about therapy and I think this one, is particular to like the black community is that if you\'re struggling with a mental illness that means that you don\'t have a strong enough faith relationship or you\'re not believing in God enough.

But that does come up a lot. And you know, I\'m really encouraged to see so many congregations and faith communities now bringing therapists in to talk to their congregations about how therapy is different from prayer. The whole idea that they don\'t have to be mutually exclusive. Like you can still talk to your pastor and pray and do all of those things and talk with a therapist. So I\'m glad to see that there has been some movement of people realizing that it\'s not that you don\'t believe in God enough or that you have a weak faith relationship. Mental illness is an illness just like anything else. So you know when people get diagnosed with cancer, you don\'t typically hear people say like, Oh, if she would\'ve just prayed harder, you know, she might not have gotten cancer, but you do get those kinds of things about mental illness.

And so I really want people to kind of divorce themselves of that belief that mental illness has anything to do with your faith relationship.

Dr. Berry:
Yeah, you definitely, you touched on a lot of points there. One where I think, where your friends become that family council, right? A lot of people are placing a lot of burden and sometimes your friends don\'t even want that burden, right? Like you guys a piece in a lot of burden and stress when you tell your problems to your friends and family members, but they\'re not really even equipped to kind of deal with it. Right? And I think that\'s why a lot of times never tell somebody else because I can\'t be the only one sitting on this type of information. So I love that aspect of it. And then of course the faith. Faith is the one that always, you know, they\'ve always gets an interesting conversation turnabout, because again, you had that kind of where I\'m not even sure why it\'s a dichotomy where they feel like if you take care of your mental health for some reason, your faith isn\'t as strong. Like I\'m not sure where that came from, but it\'s definitely there. Definitely strong. And do you find that to be more, and again, of course I\'m biased because I take care of you know, black families, right? So you find out more on in black families as far as like the religion and mental health bumping heads?

Dr. Joy Harden Bradford:
Yeah, for sure. That definitely has been my experience as well as that I definitely hear them more in communities of color than I hear that, you know, like in white families.

Dr. Berry:
Okay. Alright. So we talked about, you know, the thing that we want people to kind of race out at a memory when we talk about therapy, like well obviously the benefits clearly outweigh, right? Like so what are some of the most common benefits that you tend to see, you know, your patients really experienced when they first start and really accept the process?

Dr. Joy Harden Bradford:
Yeah. So a lot of that really depends on like what they\'re coming in for, but some of the things that you can expect or maybe better relationships with other people in your lives. But the downside though is sometimes you lose relationship that likely were very healthy for you in the first place because you learned maybe, oh yeah. But sometimes you know, you learn things like assertiveness and setting boundaries and then when you go and practice that in your life than people who you know are invested in you not having boundaries get mad with you. Right? So you may lose that relationship, but it\'s very likely that their relationship wasn\'t a healthy one or reciprocal for you anyway. So that is a caution that sometimes you learn things in therapy. Even then you go and practice it and then it results in, maybe you losing relationships or the relationships change. But that doesn\'t have to be a bad thing if you\'re coming in for something like depression or anxiety, typically working with a therapist who has specialization in those areas will result in a relief of some of those symptoms.

So not that you may never be depressed again, but you will see likely a very significant decrease in those symptoms. May be a decrease in the severity. If you\'re having panic attacks, there are things that your therapist can teach you about how to manage those panic attacks or helping you to recognize your triggers so that you don\'t experience the panic attacks as frequently. And you know, just lots of different things. And like I said, it really kind of depends on what you\'re coming in for.

Dr. Berry:
Perfect. I love it. And we kind of already talked about like when you should see him. In your eyes, you feel like the sooner the better, right? If we had to surmise it?

Dr. Joy Harden Bradford:
Yeah, absolutely. And you know, I don\'t think that there\'s any, because we\'re human, right? We\'re not perfect. There\'s always something going on in our lives that we would likely benefit from talking to an objective party about. And so, you know, talking with a therapist just about work stress or like how you know, now I am the supervisor and how do I manage people who work under me in a way that feels fair. And there are lots of different reasons why you can talk with the therapist. But definitely if you notice anything going on like changes in your behavior, the sooner the better to talk with a therapist is a great idea.

Dr. Berry:
So let\'s see, I come to a decision where at like I recognized, you know, something\'s going on. I\'m not necessarily equipped to kinda handle it, right? How do look for therapist and what should I look for?

Dr. Joy Harden Bradford:
That\'s another great question and I think a lot of people get kind of stumped here because I think there are a lot of options. It isn\'t necessarily like your PCP, right? Like, you know, most primary care doctors like treat the same kinds of things and so as long as you probably liked their bedtime manner and it may be relatively close to your home or at work, then it\'s probably fine, right? But your therapist is a different kind of a relationship and so more than like your PCP, you really want to make sure that you actually kind liked this person because you\'re likely going to be sharing some very intimate information with them. I mean, you know they\'re going to kind of be getting all in your business and asking you all kinds of questions that you likely have not been asked before. Do you do want to try to find somebody that you know, that you think you would feel comfortable talking to? I also think it\'s really important that you find a therapist who has specialization in the thing that you are coming in for.

So you may find, so there are lots of different directories. You know, like I mentioned, I have a directory on my website that is primarily targeted to black women and girls who are looking for a therapist. There are tons of different ones. Psychology today, open path, collective good therapy. Like there are lots of different directories and so you do want to make sure that you find somebody, like I said, who has a specialization in which you\'re looking for. So you may find somebody who looks like they\'re, you know, maybe really friendly or you\'ve heard him on a podcast like this and it\'s like, okay, I think I might enjoy talking with them. But then you realize they don\'t actually have a specialization in what you need and that\'s likely not going to be a really good turnout for you because wow, most therapists are trained in kind of general kinds of things and some of us do additional specializations and different trainings and certifications in certain areas.
And so you want to try to find the therapists who, one, you would feel comfortable talking with, but also has a good expertise in the thing that\'s bringing you into therapy.

Dr. Berry:
I love it. And I think that\'s very important, especially when we talk about it, and especially if you\'re hearing some of the health insurances, you know, your piece chosen for you, the option of choosing and kind of like, well this person\'s the one we\'re going to make you go to. And some people just kind of accept it and understanding that you need to have a great, and I\'m even, I\'m good relationships. Some, you know, sometimes a great relationship before you embark on such a journey, which, and, and I always talk about, especially when we talk about mental health, is that it\'s really is a journey, right? There isn\'t really a point A to point B.

Like, all right, let me get off here in and I\'m good to go. A lot of times we did something that you have to kind of continuously work on, continuously improve, continuously get better, and if you fall off, alright, I know what I need to do. So I definitely am excited by some of those points because you know, really trusting a person is extremely, extremely beneficial, especially if you\'re gonna tell them, you know, the things that you know, cause you hurt the things that cause you pain and everything else. That as a primary care physician, I unfortunately, I guess fortunately, unfortunately, you know, I had patients who trusted me enough to at least get to that point. But even me, I\'m be like, Hey, yeah, you know what, I think you might need to actually see a therapist. And not that I don\'t emphasize with what you going through, but I can\'t really give you that advice and I think you\'re gonna need in my 15 to 20 minute session.

Dr. Joy Harden Bradford:
Right and you mentioned about health insurance, Dr. Berry in Africa to mention that. So if you think that you\'re going to want to use your health insurance to see a therapist, you can probably save yourself a lot of time and frustration by getting a list of therapists who are covered by your insurance plan from your insurance company. Because sometimes, you know, clients will find a therapist that they really enjoy. They think, you know, they have a great specialization and only to realize that they don\'t actually accept their insurance which can be really frustrating. So getting a list from your insurance company to kind of start that search may be a really good idea as well.

Dr. Berry:
Perfect. Again thanks for, you know, kind of really guiding us through a process. And I don\'t think a lot of people unfortunately experienced, especially because we said the numbers, a lot of people probably should experience it. And you know, whether they\'re being stopped off and saying like, Hey, let me just go to my pieces of pizza on my piece of me, my problems in a kind of go and they don\'t get referred up like I feel like they should. And more often. So again, thank you for walking us through that process of, you know, what is therapy? It\'s a bad things, good things. And then most importantly, like, how do I look for a good one? So now that we say way, so how we look for good one, right? We, let\'s, we gotta talk about therapy for black girls and then let me just kind of get my soapbox. I think I discovered you a few years ago and I was so infatuated, so interested, right? Because I was like, oh, this is a person who recognizes such a need and it is a need. Right? And sometimes that scares people away because they feel like, oh, if I only focused on population, right? Then what about the others? And I always say, especially in a business standpoint, right? If you are trying to, you know, serve everybody, you\'re not serving anybody. So when we talk about therapy for black girls and just that motivation behind it, what made you realize, I say, you know what? Like this is it, right? These are the people who like, I need to go like 150% for.

Dr. Joy Harden Bradford:
Yeah. So I feel like it really was just an extension of what I was already doing anyway. So therapy for black girls started as a blog and I started it in 2014 after watching the black girls rock awards show on VT. (I like that show too.) Right. Exactly. And it was just such a [inaudible] yes, right, exactly. And then you could just feel the energy you\'ve been through the TV screen. And so I was like, oh, is there a way I could create something like this that gave people the same kind of energy around mental health? So it started as a blog with me just kind of like blogging about topic that I thought would be interesting to black women and girls. So like I started with a blog about how to find a therapist and what is your support system look like? Like just those kinds of like general mental health kinds of things. But it really, like I say, it is an extension of what I was already doing because every time I worked at a different college counseling center, I would always be doing outreaches and groups with the black women on campus. So a lot of my career has also been working on predominantly white campuses. And so I noticed that, you know, the black students weren\'t necessarily coming into the counseling center at the same rates as their peers.

And so I would go out to the multicultural student center or to the sororities or whatever and say, hey, let\'s do these groups. Like let me see what\'s going on with y\'all. How can we kind of make sure that we are kind of in contact that you know, the resources are here and where to reach out to if you need some help. (I love that.) So yeah, so I mean, so I was already kind of doing therapy for black girls before therapy for black girls ever became a thing. And really the blog just kind of, you know, gave me a way to kind of talk to black women and girls who were beyond my campus. So it started as a blog when now includes, like I said, the therapist directory that has over 1300 therapists in it as well as a weekly podcast that comes out every Wednesday that has topics about all kinds of things relevant to black women and girls.

Dr. Berry:
Now when you first started with, are there any particular challenges like focusing on getting, you know, black women and focusing on talking about health? The reason why I ask that because I know as, as an outpatient physician and even inpatient physician, I know I see the difference in a person\'s eyes right when I walk in and they\'re also black really like this. I see like they just kind of light up. They opened. Like it was almost like a visually open up and like they\'re just more relaxed. (Yeah.) Doing it. But I know that\'s in the medical world. Right. And I always feel like when it comes to talking about mental health is a little bit of barrier. Did you find that a little bit easier because you are a black woman and going to black women and saying, hey, this is important too?

Dr. Joy Harden Bradford:
Yeah, I got nothing but excitement from black women. When I would tell them about the blog, like I would give like, Oh yes, that\'s needed. You know, that kind of thing. So, but I know the feeling that you\'re talking about because I think what that is is really a feeling of I\'m going to be seen and heard by this person. Right? Like even though you know, blackness is not monolithic, right? Like you as a black man, even Maria is a black woman is different from me as a black woman. You know, like we all have different experiences. But I think that there is a sense of there not being some things that I won\'t have to understand. There are some things that you\'re just going to get because of our shared cultural language. And so I think that lighting up that you see in that, you know, maybe relaxing and I\'m not as tense is because they feel like okay I won\'t have to do some of that explaining that I might have to do if this was not a black provider. But yeah, like overall I think people have just been really excited and supportive about therapy for black girls, which is, you know, why it has kind of taken off in the way that it has.

Dr. Berry:
And when we say that it has, because you say you started out as a blog and you know you\'re even writing like, hey like this is how you should find one. What kind of push you to say like, oh you know what like maybe I should have my own, you know, like location cause they\'re already coming to me to read about therapy and mental health topics. Like maybe I shouldn\'t have this like directory. Like what was the motivation because I think that\'s even a different step where you always kind of business minded or was it just like made me like this would be a place that people can come to and maybe they can find someone that\'s local in their area?

Dr. Joy Harden Bradford:
You know Dr. Berry I wish I can say that I was really business minded but so much of it is, has really just been about me paying attention to my audience and having the kinds of conversations with black women that I was always having. You know? So the directory\'s started because I kept seeing people on social media, primarily Twitter because that\'s where I spend a lot of time saying like, Hey, I love to find a black therapist. Does anybody have a recommendation for a black woman therapist? And I kept seeing those conversations and I was like, well surely there has to be a way for us to kind of put something like this together, right? So I just kind of put a call out on social media and said, hey, if you\'re a black woman who\'s had a great experience with a therapist, nominate them and I will kind of compile all the information and that way other black women may be able to find therapists who other black women have had good experiences with.
And so that was in December of 2016 it really just started as a Google document. I think by the end of that year I had like 90 therapists in the directory. And like I said, now there are over 1300.

Dr. Berry:
Wow and the reason why I love that it\'s cause I think a lot of times, especially in the general public, I don\'t think people realize like how many professionals are out there that can cater to our needs. When you put it all in one area like oh my God, isn\'t it? Like I\'m pretty sure that like that probably drew some people back. We were like, oh okay. I didn\'t know. Okay. All right. All right. I didn\'t know we were out here. And it\'s crazy because I think mental health is one of those things that gets talked about but for some reason doesn\'t get talked about. And in like that same hand and when you see like, oh I can go to one area and you know to search five. For example, let\'s walk us through like if we were on your site right now, right? I want it to find someone and like say like it is, this is a process that easy. Like it might just click and click and then boom, something like that.

Dr. Joy Harden Bradford:
Yeah, I mean in some ways that is easy. In some ways it\'s not. So you know, like I said, the process of finding a therapist is probably going to be a little more involved than like finding a primary care doctor because you do want to find somebody who has a specialization in whatever you need. But if you were on the website and you wanted to search by your area code in your insurance, you could just type in your area code and then filter by insurance and then the therapist who are in your area who accepts that insurance would pop up. And then that at least makes it a little smaller for you to kind of go through those profiles and say, okay, this person feels like they might be a good fit, this person not so much. And then you can kind of narrow down your list like that.

Dr. Berry:
Yeah, I love it. So again, Lunch and Learn community I hope you hear that. So it\'s not, again, I know always like uplift like rocket science, but it\'s not rocket science. Right. You should be able, if you\'re lucky, right. If you\'re lucky, you should be able to find someone in your area who can help service their needs. Because again, remember this is Mental Awareness Month, right? We\'re putting it out on front street that everyone, even if you don\'t think you got a problem. But you may say like, oh, I could benefit. Like there\'s possibility that you could possibly benefit. Like I said, prevention is key even when it comes to mental health. And then you\'re like I said, from that you kind of springboard and I have a podcast as well, again, kind of champion that the call of mental health especially in black women and girls. So again, absolutely love everything that you\'re doing.

Dr. Joy Harden Bradford:
Thank you. I do want to go back to one of your points. I don\'t want us to make it seem as if like therapists are like plentiful and like anybody can see them. Right? Because the truth of it is that there are still a lot of barriers that might make it difficult for people to get in with therapists. You know? So sometimes, you know, like I said, sometimes you will find therapists who are not like accepted on your insurance plan. I mean, that can be for lots of different reasons. You know, sometimes finances make it difficult to see a therapist. Unfortunately, you know, kind of across the nation, lots of like community mental health agencies have other clues or are so overrun with people wanting the services that they are like at a wait list. So there are still lots of reasons why it may be difficult for people to get in to see a therapist if they want to.

But my hope is that the directory makes it a little easier for people to kind of get connected with a therapist who they might want to see.

Dr. Berry:
I love it. I definitely agree because like I said it\'s there, especially because I\'m thinking look like, and I\'m fortunate, I\'m in South Florida, right? So I\'m almost sure like I\'m gonna find somebody in south Florida who does. Right. But imagine if you\'re in the town, you\'re in a state, you know that that isn\'t plentiful. So it can be very daunting just to even look to see like, hey, like I need to find someone. But again, hopefully we can kind of channel people to at least start with your directory cause you gotta start somewhere, right? Like you\'ve got somewhere you got to look somewhere, you\'ve gotta be able to make that first step and says, yes I have an issue and I want someone to help take care of it. (Right.)

So you know, kind of piggybacking off the therapy, directory, the podcast. Remember Lunch and Learn community, all of these things will be in the show notes. So you\'ll have, you\'ll get direct links to all of this. Is there any other services that you offer or is that really the main two things right now? Or like are you doing any books and courses and in speaking of like where can people find you and talk to you, listen to you and everything from that standpoint?

Dr. Joy Harden Bradford:
Yeah, so those are the main two things. But I do have other things going on. So my clinical specialty, I do still have a small practice. It\'s helping women to recover from breakups and so out of that work, I\'ve also developed a workbook for people who are struggling with breakups. It\'s called questions that need answers. After the breakup though I also have that workbook available. I also developed an affirmation, like a guided affirmation track, which I love. So it\'s kind of like an affirmation set to music and it\'s particularly for women who feel like their life doesn\'t look like what they thought it would look like right now. Like all these questions about like why am I not partnered, why don\'t I have kids and I don\'t want to have the job that I thought I would love. That affirmation track is specifically for them and I\'m working on a second one too that\'ll be released soon. But I also have something called the yellow couch collective. So you know, we have a large social media communities around in like the podcast and all of the work that we do. And I really wanted a place that was like a smaller, more intimate group for people to really take the concepts from the podcast and take it to the next level. So that group is called the yellow couch collective. It is a membership program for people who listened to the podcast and really want to do some work surrounding the topics that we\'re talking about. So all of that you can find on thetherapyforblackgirls.com website. But those are the other things that I have going on as well, the speaking. So I do have typically have at least one or two speaking gigs every month related to like mental health and black women.

Dr. Berry:
I love it. Again Lunch and Learn community like I told you in the intro, this is an amazing person, for a few years I\'ve been lucky enough I\'ve been able to piggy back the friendship by association acts and my wife\'s a friend of hers, so like right in there. So before we let you go and we talked about, so we know thetherapyforblackgirls.com the website, again links will all be in the show notes. Is that like the main way like people contact you and you said you were on Twitter a lot too. What\'s your social media handles on there?

Dr. Joy Harden Bradford:
Yeah, so my personal social media handles across the board or @hellodrjoy, H E L L O D R J O Y and then you could find the therapy for black girls handles their therapy for black girls on both Instagram and Facebook its @therapy4bgirls (the number four b girls) on Twitter.

Dr. Berry:
I love it. And before I let you go, last question, how can what you do or how does what you do help empower the women to take really better control of their mental health?

Dr. Joy Harden Bradford:
Yeah, I think that a large part of what we do is giving women the language they need to kind of describe what\'s going on with them and to help critically think through things that they meet once a better in their lives.

Dr. Berry:
Absolutely amazing. Amazing podcast. Of course, you know, no surprises because Dr. Joy have your own show, so no surprise that was amazing podcast. Again, thanks you for taking the time to really get our Lunch and Learn community together when it comes to mental health and when it comes to the awareness and just kind of recognizing like, hey, you guys should be seeing this therapist sooner rather than later. So again, thanks for everything you\'re doing.

Dr. Joy Harden Bradford:
Thank you, Dr. Berry.

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