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In this episode Rich speaks with Andr\xe9 Henry from Venmo. Topics include: How Andr\xe9\u2019s mom was the first programmer he knew, working at ISPs in the 1990s, why infrastructure engineers love abstractions, Kubernetes is not a PaaS, how Docker nailed developer experience, and what may be coming for distributed computing.\n\nThere was a recording problem with Andr\xe9\u2019s audio and it\u2019s not the clearest. It\u2019s all Rich\u2019s fault. But bear with it, Andr\xe9 has some fascinating things to say.