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Published: Sept. 23, 2019, midnight

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Phil\\u2019s guest on this episode of the IT Career Energizer podcast is Joe Natoli. Joe is a UX consultant, author and speaker.\\xa0 He has nearly three decades of experience consulting with and training the product development teams of some of the world\\u2019s largest organisations.

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He has taught over 140,000 students through his online courses and is a regular keynote speaker and lecturer at events across the globe.

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\\xa0In this episode, Phil and Joe Natoli discuss how dogmatically sticking to processes or methodology can lead to failure. They talk about how reliance on process stops you from thinking about and solving the real problem.

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Joe explains how mentoring helps him and why he does not mind failing sometimes and likes to be pushed out of his comfort zone.

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KEY TAKEAWAYS:

(5.00) TOP CAREER TIP

Dogmatic adherence to process or methodologies, of any kind, is not a good thing. If you are not careful it can end up painting you and the company you are working for into a corner.

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The real world is messy, so insisting that things be done in a certain order every time is not viable. In the podcast, Joe gives a real world example and demonstrates how inflexibility is disrupting their workflow.

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(8.03) WORST CAREER MOMENT

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Joe was working as a consultant for a very large company. His recommendation was to replace a mix of legacy systems with an entire software lifecycle system. Unfortunately, prior to making this decision, he had not been allowed to talk to the guys who were running the current system.\\xa0

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When he did he realised that replacing the entire system would send shock waves through the company and cause a lot of damage. In the podcast, Joe explains how he works today to make sure that sort of issue never occurs again.

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(11.19) CAREER HIGHLIGHT

The fact that he has been able to help so many other people to progress their career has been a bit highlight for him. It feels good when someone he taught emails him and tells him they are doing well and thanks him for his guidance and support.

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(13.12) THE FUTURE OF CAREERS IN I.T

The fact that everything chances so fast is exciting. It keeps you on your toes and keeps you sharp. Joe likes to be pushed out of his comfort zone.

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For those who work in the UX field the challenges continue to evolve. The fact that human beings are so idiosyncratic means that the work is never likely to get boring. AI and machine learning are going to mix things up even more.

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(15.06) THE REVEAL

What first attracted you to a career in I.T.? \\u2013 Joe always enjoyed designing things and has always had an interest in human nature. He can engage in both these passions through his IT career.

What\\u2019s the best career advice you received? \\u2013 His father told him to speak clearly and plainly. Using jargon and technology only confuses people. Joe explains how that advice advanced his career.

What\\u2019s the worst career advice you received? \\u2013 Business is business, personal is personal. If you remove the personal part when you create things they won\\u2019t be any good at all.

What would you do if you started your career now? \\u2013 Joe would learn everything he could about everything he could.

What are your current career objectives? \\u2013 Right now, Joe is trying to take on less work. He is still trying to master the skill of time management.

What\\u2019s your number one non-technical skill? \\u2013 Resilience. At some point things are going to go wrong, it is inevitable. SO, being able to weather those storms is the only thing that will keep you moving forwards.

How do you keep your own career energized? \\u2013 Joe finds that switching off completely, on a regular basis, helps him to stay energised in his career.

What do you do away from technology? \\u2013 Joe enjoys spending time with his family. He is also an artist and musician.

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(22.54) FINAL CAREER TIP

Be willing to be wrong and give yourself space to be wrong. There is no need to put pressure on yourself to always be the smartest person in the room. Nobody knows everything. Just keep trying, accept the fact that sometimes you will be wrong. Give yourself enough time to try again.

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BEST MOMENTS

(5.00) \\u2013 Joe - \\u201cDogmatic adherence to process or methodologies, is not a good thing. It can paint everyone into a corner.\\u201d

(12.43) \\u2013 Joe - \\u201cHelp others to get past their sticking points. You will be making a positive difference in the world.\\u201d

(13.58) \\u2013 Joe - \\u201cDon\\u2019t fear change. It keeps you on your toes and keeps you sharp.\\u201d

(16.07) \\u2013 Joe - \\u201cSpeak clearly and plainly. Jargon and terminology have no place in communication.\\u201d

(18.12) \\u2013 Joe - \\u201cYou should never stop learning. Learn about culture and people as well as tech.\\u201d

(23.04) \\u2013 Joe - \\u201cBe willing to be wrong and give yourself to be wrong. Trying and maybe failing is the only way we learn.\\u201d

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ABOUT THE HOST \\u2013 PHIL BURGESS

Phil Burgess is an independent IT consultant who has spent the last 20 years helping organisations to design, develop and implement software solutions.\\xa0 Phil has always had an interest in helping others to develop and advance their careers. \\xa0And in 2017 Phil started the I.T. Career Energizer podcast to try to help as many people as possible to learn from the career advice and experiences of those that have been, and still are, on that same career journey.

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CONTACT THE HOST \\u2013 PHIL BURGESS

Phil can be contacted through the following Social Media platforms:

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Twitter: https://twitter.com/philtechcareer

LinkedIn: https://uk.linkedin.com/in/philburgess

Facebook: https://facebook.com/philtechcareer

Instagram: https://instagram.com/philtechcareer

Website: https://itcareerenergizer.com/contact

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Phil is also reachable by email at phil@itcareerenergizer.com and via the podcast\\u2019s website, https://itcareerenergizer.com

Join the I.T. Career Energizer Community on Facebook - https://www.facebook.com/groups/ITCareerEnergizer

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ABOUT THE GUEST \\u2013 Joe Natoli

Joe Natoli \\xa0is a UX consultant, author and speaker.\\xa0 He has nearly three decades of experience consulting with and training the product development teams of some of the world\\u2019s largest organisations.

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He has taught over 140,000 students through his online courses and is a regular keynote speaker and lecturer at events across the globe.

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CONTACT THE GUEST \\u2013 Joe Natoli

Joe Natoli can be contacted through the following Social Media platforms:

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Twitter: https://www.twitter.com/joenatoli

LinkedIn: http://linkedin.com/in/joenatoli

Website: https://www.givegoodux.com

YouTube: http://www.youtube.com/c/Givegoodux

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