b'My guest this week is Bart Campolo. Bart is the host of the Humanize Me Podcast. He is the author of \\u201cWhy I Left, Why I Stayed.\\u201d Along with his famous Evangelical father, Tony Campolo, Bart is the subject of John Wright\\u2019s documentary: Leaving my Father\\u2019s Faith. If that is not enough, Bart is also the Humanist Chaplain at the University of Cincinnati. Bart and I discuss graceful ways of talking with people with whom we disagree, having conversations that are difficult that touch on religion, race and politics and changing one\\u2019s mind. I point out that Bart has been particularly public with some of these conversations, including a book and documentary with his dad, Tony Campolo, a podcast episode with his son, Roman, where they disagree on the hope or lack thereof for our species and a recent podcast episode on race. In short, Bart wears his heart on his sleeve and lives his life out loud with humility, honesty and grace. We discuss humanism and the burden of being hopeful. Bart pushes back on my assertion that everyone needs awe, belonging and community. According to Bart different people need different amounts of each of those things. At the same time, Bart is facilitating a healthy secular community in Cincinnati providing just those things for the lucky few who attend. They put it this way: