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Ben talks with John Norman about his process and modified approach to the delivery, payment, and tech of modern managed health care. They also touch on age bias in the programming world, living a purpose-driven life, and dealing with startup growth.

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• Iora Health
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• "The Hot Spotters"- Atul Gawande
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• The Healing of America- T.R. Reid
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• WellnessFX
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• Agile Manifesto
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• HIPAA
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• Being Mortal- Atul Gawande
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• "How to Scale a Development Team"- Adam Wiggins
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• "The Double Diamond Model of Product Definition and Design"- Peter Merholz
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• John on Twitter
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