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Dr Jacob Liberman is here to explain the nature of light and consciousness to Michael and Greg. He starts with the idea that seeing is more than just vision before explaining his background overcoming his astigmatism, his work as an optometrist, and growth in spiritual self-reflection. The conversation stray fairly far from the nuts and bolts of lighting and more into the relationship between humans, light and darkness and how that can motivate us to design and build better lighting systems. You can find more of Jacob’s work, including his books at https://www.jacobliberman.org/