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Published: Feb. 26, 2024, 9 a.m.

Do we have a "Self"? Or "Personality"? What's the best way to combat Should Statements?\xa0 Is TEAM effective without a therapist?\xa0 What's the Difference between
Positive Reframing and Positive Thoughts?\xa0

Note: The answers below were written by David prior to the podcast, just to give some structure to the discussion. Keep in mind that the actual live discussion by Rhonda, Matt and David will often go in different directions with different information and opinions. So, please listen to the podcast for the more complete answers!

Questions for today\u2019s Ask David Podcast:

1. Stefan asks if we have a \u201cself\u201d or a \u201cpersonality.\u201d
2. Slash wants to know how to combat a \u201cShould Statement.\u201d
3. Magellan asks about the effectiveness of TEAM without the guidance of a therapist.
4. Werner asks about the differences between Positive Reframing and the Positive Thoughts you record on the Daily Mood Log.

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1. Stefan asks if we have a \u201cself\u201d or a \u201cpersonality.\u201d What is the so-called \u201cGreat Death\u201d of the \u201cself,\u201d referred to in Buddhism?

Hi David,

I really love your work, both the books and the podcast you\u2019ve created. Lots of great tools there. I think your down-to-earth approach is effective and great in de-mythologizing mental health care.

Still, one thing has been bugging me about your approach: the fact that you quite casually seem to discount the existence of the self. As a theologian I understand this position. In discounting the self as a construct, you\u2019ll open the way to less resistance and more acceptance. I studied both Christianity and some Buddhism, and in that tradition the self is essentially something to let go of as an illusion. I think you called this the death of the ego, and it\u2019s common in many mystical currents both within and without the major religious traditions.

However, by embracing this tradition in a therapeutic setting, I think there\u2019s a great risk to gloss over long-held implicit beliefs or patterns in the construction of a personality that might hold people back from reaching their full potential. More specifically, I\u2019m talking about schemas or Lifetraps (in the terminology of Jeffrey E. Young and Janet S. Klosko). I know Aaron Beck supports their work to address these \u201cchronic self-defeating personality patterns\u201d that are usually considered the be part of the self. What\u2019s your take on their work?

Kind regards,\xa0Stefan

David\u2019s reply

Hi Stefan,

Personality, like "self" is not a "thing," but just the observations that different people have different behavioral patterns. So, some are more outgoing, for example, while others are more introverted and shy and insecure.

The only meaning of "self" is the context in which the word appears. So, "behave yourself" simply means that you are misbehaving and need to stop!

Can you come to the Sunday hike is a question. It does not need the add on, "and do you plan to bring you 'self.'"

The only meaning of any word is the context, and many uses in the English language, or any language. Nouns do not always refer to "things." Words are just sounds that come out of our mouths.

I don't go into this much because few people "get it."

Thanks so much, Stefan.

Warmly, david

PS The above is my take on Wittgenstein's Philosophical investigations, published after he died in 1950. .

Second PS I had a random and fairly weak thought, but here it is. When doing my daily \u201cslogging\u201d a while back, I was going through a pleasant and familiar path and noticing how beautiful everything was, and had the thought, \u201cThis land is so valuable and expensive, and I\u2019m SO GLAD I don\u2019t have to own it. It would involve a nightmare of paper work, taxes and all kinds of worries. But I can just enjoy it without any of those burdens of ownership.

Then I thought of the \u201cself,\u201d and what a heavy burden it is to \u201chave one,\u201d and worry about whether or not it is \u201cgood enough,\u201d or \u201cinferior,\u201d and so forth. Selves tend to be a bit overweight, and heavy to carry around. And how much more fun, beautiful, and rewarding life is without having to have a \u201cself\u201d to worry about.

Rhonda found this helpful after a time feeling confused about the "self," and Matt added this: "Right, and if we own the 'land' one day, and it changes, the next moment, is it the same 'land'?\xa0 Do we still own it?"

Matt\u2019s "Self" Thoughts

Wittgenstein is one of my favorite philosophers due to the elegance of his solution to philosophical problems, which is to recognize that they are not, in fact, \u2018problems\u2019.\xa0 Instead of trying to answer the question, \u2018is there a self\u2019, \u2018do I have a self\u2019, he would point out that these questions are meaningless and can\u2019t be answered.

One way to bring these questions into a form that could be useful and answerable, is to define the terms.\xa0 What is the \u2018self\u2019, and what can it do?\xa0 How would I know, if I had a \u2018self\u2019?\xa0 If the definition was in the form of a testable hypothesis, we\u2019d be a step closer to arriving at a meaningful answer.

In some cases, this answer is incredibly meaningful, in terms of our mental state and relationships.\xa0 Let\u2019s try on a few possible definitions of \u2018self\u2019 and consider some experiments that could be done to test whether these hold water.

\u2018Self\u2019:\xa0 (from Meriam Webster):\xa0 one\u2019s essential being, which separates them from others.\xa0 (I don\u2019t find this definition useful, because now I just have to define what is an \u2018essential being\u2019?\xa0 What are we talking about?

\u2018Self\u2019:\xa0 The subject of our experience; the thing that is thinking our thoughts, and feeling our feelings.\xa0 (This is also problematic for many reasons.\xa0 First, it\u2019s based on an unproven assumption that experience requires an experiencer.\xa0 Descartes believed this but Nietsche retorted that this logic was highly flawed as it smuggles the \u2018self\u2019 into the equation without any justification.\xa0 Further, there are many \u2018nondualistic\u2019 philosophies that challenge the \u2018separateness\u2019 of \u2018self\u2019 and experience.\xa0 Meaning, the presence of thought doesn\u2019t mean anything other than the presence of thought.\xa0 We ought to be skeptical of introducing additional complexity into the situation according to the principle of \u2018Occam\u2019s Razor\u2019, that the simplest hypothesis that explains all the observations is more likely to be correct).

\u2018Self\u2019:\xa0 The \u2018CEO\u2019 of your mind, the aspec of yourself that is directing your body, attention and decision-making.\xa0 (This is problematic in many of the same ways as the above definition.\xa0 It\u2019s also the most readily falsifiable definition.\xa0 We can experiment with our ability to control our decision-making in a variety of ways, one of which is to see if you can \u2018choose\u2019, with your \u2018self\u2019 not to understand the words on this page.\xa0 Or to sit quietly and not think.\xa0 If our \u2018self\u2019 can\u2019t use its \u2018free will\u2019 to control the brain\u2019s activities in such simple ways, why would we imagine that we have a self, controlling our brain, at all?

In fact, most of us believe in a \u2018self\u2019, which, if we attempt to define it carefully, it can be proven NOT to exist.\xa0 However, this is an unacceptable conclusion for many people, even though it results in a form of enlightenment.\xa0 This form of enlightenement is slightly different from \u2018self acceptance\u2019.\xa0 It\u2019s more like \u2018waking up from a dream of a self\u2019 than \u2018acceping a flawed self\u2019.

All that said, yes, it\u2019s often incredibly useful to inspect our assumptions about our \u2018self\u2019, in terms of our \u2018roles\u2019 and \u2018rules\u2019 in our relationships.\xa0 David offers the \u2018Interpersonal Downward Arrow\u2019 to do this in a single session.\xa0 There, we might discover we are stuck in a belief system that is counterproductive, like, \u2018we must be perfect\u2019, \u2018we should never have conflict\u2019, etc.\xa0 There are countless ways people think about their \u2018self\u2019 which can be productive or a \u2018trap\u2019.\xa0 Obviously, if we had no sense of our identity, purpose, role, etc., it would be hard to know what to do with our \u2018selves' on a day-to-day basis!

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2. Slash asks how she can combat her \u201cShould Statement.\u201d

Hi\xa0David

I did some exercises and found I a believe that I should play guitar effortlessly or else I should enjoy the process of learning. My disadvantages are greater in CBA. Now what thought should I replace with so that I could have the advantages too.

Slash

David\u2019s reply

Thanks, Slash!

It is a should statement.

Essentially, your \u201cshould\u201d doesn\u2019t make sense since there is no rule that says you should, must, or ought to enjoy something you don\u2019t enjoy right now, so you are just putting pressure on yourself unnecessarily.

I once had a patient who had previously been treated briefly by Dr. Albert Ellis when he was in New York. He was on vacation, and was feeling depressed and telling himself that he SHOULDN\u2019T be unhappy since he was on vacation. He thought he SHOULD be enjoying himself.

He said that the thing that helped the most was when Dr. Ellis said, \u201cWhere the F__K is it written that you are obligated to enjoy being on vacation?\u201d (Ellis used that word a lot!)

He said he immediately gave himself permission to feel miserable on vacation, and instantly felt better! This is an example of what I call the Acceptance Paradox. When he accepted his unhappiness, instead of struggling in shame to make it go away, it disappeared.

I have a similar story. I used to have a keen interest in collecting coins from around the world, and when I was an intern at Highland Hospital in Oakland, I used to enjoy going to the local coin stores to see if I could find some interesting foreign coin to purchase for a few dollars. This was always exciting, but one day I was in the S & D Coin store just a few miles from our apartment, realized I was totally bored and had lost my interest in collecting foreign coins.

I told the friendly dealer, and he said, \u201cOh, don\u2019t worry about it. Just do something else in your free time for a few weeks and your interest in collecting will probably come back.\u201d

So, I did that, and that\u2019s just what happened. Essentially, he was also giving me \u201cpermission\u201d to feel the way I was feeling, and not the way I thought I \u201cshould\u201d feel! And when I accepted my negative feelings, they ran their course and disappeared.

That worked for me, but there are a lot of methods in TEAM, and you sometimes have to try quite a few before you find the one that works for you, since we\u2019re all different.

The \u201cgo to\u201d method for Should Statements is called the Semantic Technique. Using this method, you could tell yourself, \u201cRight now I seem to have lost interest in music. It would be great if it comes back again, and probably will. But it\u2019s natural not to feel excited about music all the time.\u201d

Notice that I used \u201cit would be great if\u201d in place of the \u201cShoulds.\u201d

As an aside, we just completed a new class for the Feeling Great App entitled \u201cYour PhD in Shoulds.\u201d You might want to check it out.

There\u2019s also a lesson on perfectionism at the end of the class.

Best, david

Cost-Benefit Analysis

If I make mistakes, then I am not talented enough to play guitar.(associating my self worth with talent of playing guitar.) Advantages of Believing This Disadvantages of Believing This 1.It will push me to work harder. 1.There is lot of internal pressure. 2.It will motivate me to try different things until I find any solution. 2.It makes me depressed. 3.It can help me to be perfect/achive skills like my idol guitarist. 3.It ruins my currently playing technique I want to master. 4.People will admire me. 4.It makes me stuck at particular point from where I am not able to move forward. 5.It shows that I am one cut above others. 5.It hinders my progress with respect to guitar playing skills. 6.People who think I am not enough I can prove it to them. 6.It makes me frustrated irritated. 7.It can help me to be confident. 7.Endless cycle which I feel I am stuck in the moment and cant get out of it. \xa0 8.The quest to achieve will take forever which will make me hopeless and which further decreases my tolerance to make mistakes/which will further make me vigilant to see my mistakes as fault which cannot be corrected. \xa0 9.My moral goes down.

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3. Magellan asks: Can you do TEAM-CBT without a shrink?

Dear David,

Could you tell us about studies of the effectiveness of any written TEAM or other therapy materials offered without therapist guidance (for example when people are on a waitlist to see a therapist)?

I think I heard of one done with Feeling Good. I wonder if one may be done with Feeling Great.

Thanks,

Magellan

David\u2019s response: We have impressive results with our app, which I can describe. It is completely automated without therapist guidance. It is kind of like my first book, Feeling Good, on steroids!

I also have precise data on waiting list controls. The waiting list do not improve until they start the Feeling Great App and then they experience rapid and dramatic changes with a couple days.

There's no doubt about the effectiveness of the app. Also, there's extensive research proving the effectiveness' o my first book, Feeling Good. There's no question about the effectiveness of these self-help tools. I have many questions about the effectiveness of human shrinks, however!

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4. From Werner Spitzfaden: Positive Reframing vs Positive Thoughts

I periodically come across clients who get confused by the concept of the Positive Reframing vs Positive Thoughts on the DML.

The question they pose is if the Positive Reframe is similar to the Positive Thoughts on the DML?

After some explanation I focus on Positive Reframing as a way of seeing that even the most difficult and painful thoughts and feelings reveal something powerful and awesome about us and then ask if that's true about them. This focuses on Outcome Resistance.

The positive thoughts on the DML focus on defeating their negative thinking with 2 conditions needing to be present: their new positive thought needs to be believable and it has to drastically reduce the distress resulting from your negative thought.

This focuses on the early stages of Methods coming after looking at Distortions followed by the Straight Forward Technique. I would love to hear David's take on this.

David\u2019s Response

Yes, Werner, you are right! The goal of Positive Reframing is not to \u201cCheerlead\u201d or to persuade the patient that their negative thoughts are not correct, but rather to help them see why they may fight to hang on to their negative thoughts and feelings, because they are beneficial and helpful in many ways.

This is the latest list of questions you can ask when doing PR with a negative thought. Most will also apply to a negative feeling.

1. 1. What is the truth in this negative thought? (This is essentially the Disarming Technique applied to your own self-criticism)
   2. Why might this negative thought or feeling be healthy and appropriate, given my circumstances.
   3. Why might this negative thought or feeling be helpful to me?
   4. What does it show about me and my core values that\u2019s positive and awesome?
   5. What might be some negative consequences of giving up this negative thought or feeling?

You were spot on about Positive Thoughts. To be helpful, they must fulfill two conditions.

1. 1. They must be 100% true. Half-truths and rationalizations are rarely or never helpful/
   2. They must drastically reduce your belief in the distorted negative thought.

Hey, Werner, we miss you like crazy in the Tuesday group and in our (now small and humble) Sunday hikes. Hope you\u2019re doing well.

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