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b'Long before Behaviour-Driven Development was a term, John Smart was a proponent of bringing business and tech teams together. It was working for a French insurance company in the 90s, with complex (and peculiar) business rules, where the journey started:\\n\\n\\u201cThis was a car insurance company so you had to tell them where you lived, what sort of car you had, what colour it was, what sort of dog you had...everything.\\n\\nThe customer/product owner had these excel spreadsheets that he was using by himself to check the algorithms on the mainframe that we were supposed to be reproducing. So I said, maybe that could be useful - we can use those to drive our tests.\\nWhat we ended up with was a set of unit tests being driven by an Excel spreadsheet...Ever since then, I\\u2019ve been looking for ways to write tests that express things at the business level. So when I came across BDD it all fell into place. \\u201c\\n\\nThis week on the Cucumber Podcast, Matt Wynne, Aslak Helles\\xf8y and Steve Tooke talk with John Smart about BDD, his upcoming CukeUp! workshop, and how Serenity can help your team write higher quality automated tests.\\n\\nJohn Smart will be delivering a workshop at CukeUp! London on April 14th - skillsmatter.com/conferences/7606\\u2026eup-2016#program\\n\\nJohn was a speaker at CukeUp! in Sydney last November. \\nHis talk can be found here - cucumber.io/blog/2016/01/11/cuk\\u20265-videos#john-smart\\n\\nYou can find out more about Serenity on his website - www.thucydides.info/#/\\n\\nOther speaking engagements\\n\\n - DevWeek London - devweek.com/speakers#john-smart\\n - Gee Con - 2016.geecon.org/speakers/info.html?id=87\\n - London Tester Gathering - skillsmatter.com/conferences/7219\\u2026g-workshops-2016'