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Links and resources mentioned:\n\xa0\nThis post includes links to the details on how we [Jon's family] celebrate each Sabbat: https://naturalisticpaganism.org/2014/12/14/starstuff-contemplating-by-heather-and-jon-cleland-host-celebrating-meaning-in-our-lives-through-family-holidays/\n\xa0\nGrandma's cheat sheet summary of holidays to give relatives, (just click on the top image and print it for your own copies). https://naturalisticpaganism.org/2018/07/11/grandmas-cheat-sheet-by-starstuff-contemplating/\n\xa0\nThe First Cosmala rite of passage is described in the book "Faithful Practices" by Wikstrom, on pages 65-90. I'll attach a screen shot of that section. The overall page to guide making your Cosmala is : http://solstice-and-equinox.com/universebeads.html\n\xa0\nThe book is at: https://www.amazon.com/Faithful-Practices-Everyday-Ways-Spirit/dp/1558968113/ref=sr_1_1?keywords=faithful+practices+wikstrom&qid=1638716819&sr=8-1\n\xa0\nThe Ancestor Cards for Samhain dinner grace can be downloaded and printed from: http://naturalpagan.org/kidspirit/ancestorcards.pdf\n\xa0\nS2E45 TRANSCRIPT:\n----more----\nMark: Welcome back to the Wonder Science-based Paganism. I'm your host Mark.\xa0\nYucca: And I'm Yucca.\nMark: And today we are having a really exciting episode. We're interviewing two folks who are naturalistic pagans, who are parents, and we're going to talk about parenting. In, you know, and, and developing practices for families that and raising kids within a written naturalistic pagan tradition.\nSo I'd like to welcome first of all, Lilith, who is a parent and serves on the atheopagan society council and is an ecologist. So she really checks all the boxes for the kind of folks that that you know, we think are doing great work in the world. Welcome Lilith.\xa0\nLilith: Thank you for having me.\nMark: And then also we'd like to welcome Dr. Jon Cleland Host.\xa0\nYucca: Welcome back in fact.\nMark: back. Yes. Because you were interviewed on here before you have so many accomplishments, to your name. I don't really know where to start, but you're a scientist and I'm a materials analyst. And also have had a lot to do with the growth of naturalistic paganism from very early days.\nSo welcome to you as well.\xa0\nJon: Thank you. I'm glad to be here.\nYucca: So why don't we just do a quick around and all of us who are parents here, just maybe mention a little bit about you know, just briefly the, the families that we have and, and when, and how we got into paganism. So, Lilith do you want to start with that?\nLilith: Sure. All right. So I, my oldest is 22. I and it's, I have a 22 year-old son, and then I have a 21 year old son. I have an 18 year old daughter. I have a 13 year old son, a five-year-old daughter, and a two and a half year old son.\xa0\nMark: Well,\xa0\nLilith: Thank you very much.\nYucca: Wonderful. So you've got the full range of experiences there.\nLilith: I have quite a spread. Yes.\nYucca: yeah. And before we hit the record button, you were mentioning that with some of them you were pegging already. And then with the older ones, that was a transition when they were already older kids.\nLilith: Yes. So I, I definitely did not identify as pagan. Like if somebody had asked me what religion I was, I would have said atheist until my son who is now 13 was quite little. Like he probably doesn't remember when my answer wasn't pagan, if somebody asked me. So it's been, since I started using.\nLabel for myself. It's probably only been about a dozen years. So at that point, you know, my head children who were eight years old, seven years old already. So, yes, it, it didn't, it, it definitely doesn't predate my children, me, all of them anyway, me considering myself pagan, but I definitely think I was, I just didn't use that label.\nSo it's a little bit strange. Because I, we used to celebrate the solstice and the Equinox and I just didn't have a label for it. But you might get a different answer if you were to ask them actually this MI\xa0\nMark: That might be a great episode to do som