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As leaders in Washington, DC look to stimulate the American economy, one course of action with bipartisan support\u2014as per usual\u2014is to pour money into infrastructure. Yet as Strong Towns readers know, infrastructure spending often leads cities down the road of insolvency rather than prosperity, and not all infrastructure spending is alike.\nIn a recent two-part policy brief, Joseph W. Kane and Shalini Vajjhala of The Brookings Institution\u2019s Metropolitan Policy Program wrote that \u201cto truly improve the country\u2019s infrastructure and help the most vulnerable households, federal leaders cannot simply throw more money at shiny new projects. Instead, they must invest with purpose and undo the harms of our legacy infrastructure systems.\u201d They continued: \u201cAbove all, leaders should prioritize people over projects in our infrastructure plans. In practice, that means defining, measuring, and addressing our infrastructure challenges based on the needs of users of new and existing systems.\u201d\nOne of the authors of that brief, Joseph Kane, is the guest on this week\u2019s episode of the Strong Towns podcast. Kane is a senior research associate and associate follow at the Metropolitan Policy Program. An economist and urban planner, his work focuses on wide array of built environment issues, including transportation and water infrastructure.\nIn this jam-packed episode, Strong Towns president Chuck Marohn talks with Kane about the role infrastructure spending could play as part of the recovery agenda. Kane and Marohn discuss why \u201cbuilding back better\u201d (President Biden\u2019s phrase) doesn\u2019t have to mean \u201cbuild back new;\u201d it could mean build back different, build less, and maybe even take down what we\u2019ve already built. They also talk about whether an infrastructure bill in the trillions of dollars can address the nuances of what\u2019s actually needed at the local level, whether Americans are more comfortable with catastrophic failures than the small ones that might teach valuable lessons along the way toward economic resilience, and about Kane and Vajjhala\u2019s four strategies that can help undo the harms of \u201clegacy infrastructure systems.\u201d\nAdditional Show Notes:\n\n\u201cPrioritize people, not projects: Addressing the harms of legacy infrastructure in the COVID-19 recovery,\u201d by Joseph W. Kane and Shalini Vajjhala (Part 1)\n\n\n\u201cFour steps to undo the harms of legacy infrastructure in the COVID-19 recovery,\u201d by Shalani Vajjhala and Joseph W. Kane (Part 2)\n\n\nJoseph Kane (Twitter)\n\n\nCharles Marohn (Twitter)\n\n\nSelect Strong Towns content on infrastructure spending\n\n\u201cThe more we build, the poorer we get,\u201d by Charles Marohn\n\n\n\u201cA Better Use of Federal Infrastructure Spending\u201d (Podcast)\n\n\n\u201cThe Worst Possible Thing We Can Do with This Money\u201d (Podcast)\n\n\n\u201cWhat Should My City Do About Our Infrastructure Backlog?\u201d by Charles Marohn\n\n\n\u201cWould a $2 Trillion Infrastructure Spending Surge Promote Good Planning?\u201d by Daniel Herriges