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Enjoy part two of this classic episode series where Andrew Warner from Mixergy interviews Russell on the ClickFunnels startup story!\n Hit me up on IG! @russellbrunson Text Me! 208-231-3797 Join my newsletter at\xa0marketingsecrets.com ClubHouseWithRussell.com\n ---Transcript---\n Alright everybody, this is Russell Brunson. Welcome back to the Marketing Secrets podcast. I hope yesterday you enjoyed part one of the Clickfunnels start up story interview at the Dry Bar Comedy Club with Andrew. I love the way he interviews. I hope you\u2019re enjoying it as well.\n So we are going to dive right into part 2 of 4 from this interview. And again, if you\u2019re liking these interviews please, please, please take a snapshot on your phone, post it on Facebook, Instagram or wherever you do your posting and tag me in it and use hashtag marketing secrets so I can see that you\u2019re talking about it. I\u2019d appreciate it. With that said, we\u2019re going to queue up the theme song, when we come back we\u2019ll start in on part 2 of the interview of the Clickfunnels start up story.\n Andrew: You know what, I\u2019ve talked to a few of your people because they\u2019re so good, that Dave could really be a leader on his own, start his own company, he\u2019s got his own online reputation, the whole thing. I keep asking him, \u201cWhy do you work for Russell? What is it that lets you be second to Russell who\u2019s getting all the attention?\u201d And I\u2019ve got some answers and would you mind coming up here and in a second I\u2019m going to ask you. No, come back here and I\u2019ll just bring you up in a second. Actually, you know what, it looks like you can come pretty fast. I thought that it would be a little bit more, I thought it would be more of a thing to get mics on people. And I realized if Collette can do it\u2026.\n Okay honestly, dig down deep. Why did you want to stick with him?\n Brent: Through all that stuff?\n Andrew: Yeah.\n Brent: I don\u2019t know. My heart was just racing. As he started telling that story, it just makes me sick to my stomach. As you scroll down and look at all those businesses of, for years, every 30 days it was a new business launch, it was crazy. Always why I stuck with him is, you know, Collette mentioned that spirit. He\u2019s absolutely different than anybody else I\u2019ve ever met in my entire life, a friend\u2026.\n Andrew: Of what? Give me an example. Let\u2019s be more specific. Back then, not today, he\u2019s got this track record, adoring fans, I asked him to do an interview, everyone wants him on his podcast. Back then when it wasn\u2019t going so well. Give me an example that let you know this is a guy who\u2019s going to figure it out eventually, and I could possibly go down, watch him go to jail, but I believe that it\u2019s going to go up.\n Brent: Well, at the time when things are crashing, I saw him as the income stopped. And he had started a program that he loves, obviously wrestling, and he brought an Olympic wrestling coach to Boise and he brought all these amazing wrestlers to Boise and he wanted them to be able to train and get to the Olympics, he wanted to help them get there and live their dream. And you know, he was supplementing, at the time the business was paying for these guys to do a little bit of work for us, they weren\u2019t doing very much for us. But I saw him out of his own pocket, be paying for these guys. And I knew how hard he wanted to support them.\n And there was a day when my wife and I, we were struggling because I just, I was concerned about him financially because he was supplementing and trying to keep this business afloat, and we talked about things and I came into the office one day and I asked if I could talk to him and sat down, and kind of spoke in language that I normally don\u2019t speak in, I might have dropped a bomb or two. It was, I was so concerned I pretty much told him, I can\u2019t keep doing this, I can\u2019t keep watching you every month pulling the money that you saved for your family to try keep jobs for other people. I said, I\u2019ll leave if that helps you.\n And the fact that he stuck with people, that was the true character of who he is.\n Andrew: He kept paying your salary, kept sticking with you, and also constantly launching things.\n Brent: Absolutely.\n Andrew: That you\u2019ve never seen anyone implement like him.\n Brent: You know some people call it faith or belief. He has this inherit belief that he can truly change people\u2019s lives.\n Andrew: That\u2019s it, even when he wasn\u2019t fully in control of his own. Alright thanks. Thanks for, give him a big round of applause, thanks for being up here. I feel like this is the thing that helped get you out of trouble and potentially, and getting out of potential jail.\n What is this business that you created?\n Russell: So we, during the time of that and this there was time, probably a year and a half-two years that we were trying all sorts of stuff. And again, marginal success on a lot of them, nothing like\u2026.and this was the one, we actually, this is before\u2026.I\u2019ve done a lot of webinars and speaking from seminars and stuff like that, but this is right when auto webinars were coming out and Mike Filsaime had just done an auto webinar and a couple of people, and I felt like that was going to be the future thing. So we\u2019re like, what do we do the webinar on? We didn\u2019t know.\n And we flew out to Ryan Deiss and Perry Belcher\u2019s office for two days and picked their brains, went to Rich Schefren\u2019s office for a day. And then on the flight home, I\u2019m just like sick to my stomach. I couldn\u2019t figure out what\u2019s the thing that we could serve people the most right now. And on the flight home I was like, all the internet marketing stuff we do works for internet marketers, but we\u2019re way better at like local business. Like if a chiropractor implements like two things it works. Or if a dentist does it.\n But I was like, I don\u2019t want to be the guy going to dentists, but we could be the backbone for that. What if we created an opportunity where people could come in, we train them, and we connect them with the right tools and resources, and then they could go and sell to chiropractors and dentists. And that\u2019s what the idea was. We turned it into an offer called Dotcom Secrets Local, it was a thousand dollar offer at the time. Did the auto webinar for it, and it launched and within 90 days it had done over a million dollars, which covered payroll taxes and then got us out of debt to the point now we could stop and dream again, and believe again and try to figure out what we really wanted to do.\n Andrew: Dotcom Secrets Local to a million dollars within 90 days. And how did you find the people who were going to sign up for this. A lot of us will have landing pages like this, we\u2019ll have these funnels. How did you get people in this funnel?\n Russell: And this was pre-Facebook too, so it wasn\u2019t just like go turn Facebook ads on. But you know, one thing that happened over all the years prior to this, I\u2019d met a lot of people and go to a lot of events and get to know everybody. And everyone I met, you know, you meet a lot of people who have lists, they have followings, they have different things like that. I just got to know them really, really well. And in the past I\u2019d promote a lot of their products, they\u2019d promote my products.\n So we had this one and we did it first to my list, and it did really well. So I then I then called them and I\u2019m like, \u201cOkay, I did this webinar to my list, these are the numbers, it did awesome. Do you want to do it to your list as well?\u201d and they\u2019re like, \u201cOh sure. Sounds like a great offer.\u201d We did that list and it did good for them too. And we told the next person and then, if you have a webinar, it\u2019s kind of like the speaking circuit, if you\u2019re good at speaking then people will put you all over the place. Same thing, if you have a webinar that converts, then it\u2019s easy to get a lot of people to do it. So as soon as that one worked and it converted well, then people lined up and we kept doing it, doing it, and doing it, and it was really quick to get to that spot pretty quick.\n Andrew: I went on Facebook recently and I saw webinar slides from Russell Brunson, I went to the landing page, Clickfunnels page and I signed up and I\u2019ll talk about it maybe later, but I bought it and I know other people did. And I\u2019ve seen other people say, \u201cRussell\u2019s webinar technique is the thing that just works.\u201d I\u2019m wondering how did you figure it out? How did you come across this and how did you build it and make it work?\n Russell: Yeah, so rewind back probably ten years prior to this, when I was first learning this whole business. I went to my very first internet marketing seminar ever, it was Armand Morin\u2019s Big Seminar. Did you ever go to Big Seminar? Anyway, I went to it and I had no idea what to expect. I thought it was going to be like, I showed up with my laptop and I was going to like, I thought we were a bunch of geeks going to do computer stuff.\n And the first person got onstage and started speaking and at the end of it he sold like a two thousand dollar thing. And I\u2019d never seen this before. I saw people jumping up and running to the back of the room to buy it. And I\u2019m like this little 23 year old kid and I was counting the people in the back of the room, doing the math, you know doing the math and I\u2019m like, that guy made 60 thousand dollars in an hour.\n And the next guy gets up and does his presentation and I watch this for three days and I was like, I\u2019m super shy and introverted, but that skill is worth learning. If someone can walk on a stage and make 100,000 dollars in an hour, I need to learn how to do that. So I started that. And it was really bad for the first probably 8 or 9 months. I tried to do it. I\u2019d go to places and I just, I couldn\u2019t figure it out. And then I started asking the people who were good because you go there and all the speakers kind of talk and hang out, and I\u2019d watch the ones that always had the people in the back of the room. And I\u2019d ask them questions, I\u2019m like, \u2018What did I do wrong? I feel like I\u2019m teaching the best stuff possible.\u2019 And they\u2019re like, \u2018That\u2019s the problem, it\u2019s not about teaching, it\u2019s about stories, telling stories and breaking beliefs.\u201d\n So for about the next two years I was about once a month flying somewhere to speak, and then when I would go I would meet all the speakers and find out what they were doing and I\u2019d watch them and I\u2019d take notes on the different things they were saying and how they were saying it. And then I kept taking my presentation and tweaking it, and tweaking it, and tweaking it. And you know, now 12 years later, I\u2019ve done so many webinars, it kind of worked. The process works now.\n Andrew: You are a really good story teller and I\u2019ve seen you do that. I\u2019ve seen you do it, and I know you\u2019re going to do it even more. What I\u2019m curious about is the belief system that you were saying, breaking people\u2019s\u2026what was it that you said?\n Russell: False beliefs.\n Andrew: Breaking people\u2019s false beliefs. How do you understand what, like as you look at this audience, do you understand what some of our false beliefs are?\n Russell: If I knew what I was selling I could figure out for sure.\n Andrew: If you knew what you were selling. Alright we\u2019re selling this belief that entrepreneurship does work. And I know we\u2019re all going to go through a period like some of the ones that you had where things just aren\u2019t\u2019 working, other people aren\u2019t believing in us, almost failure, what is at that point, the belief system that we have to work on? What do you recognize in people here?\n Russell: So usually there\u2019s three core beliefs that people have. The first is about the opportunity itself right. So like with entrepreneurship, the first belief that people have is could I actually be an entrepreneur? And some people who actually believe that, they\u2019re like, I\u2019m in. And that\u2019s an easy one. But for those who don\u2019t there\u2019s a reason and usually it\u2019s like, they saw a parent that tried to do it. And the parent tried to be an entrepreneur and wasn\u2019t able to and they saw that failure. Or they\u2019d tried it in the past and they failed or whatever it is.\n So it\u2019s showing them that even if you tried in the past and showed different ways, let me tell you a story. And for me, I could show 800 different failures. But eventually you get better and you get better until eventually you have the thing that actually works. So I tell a story to kind of show that, to make them believe that, oh my gosh maybe I just need to try a couple more times.\n And then the second level of beliefs is like beliefs about themselves like, I\u2019m sure it works for you, Russell or Andrew but not for me because I\u2019m different. It\u2019s helping them figure out their false beliefs, and if you can break that, then the third one is like, then they always want to blame somebody else. \u201cI could lose lots of weight but my wife buys lots of cupcakes and candy. So I could do it, but because of that I can\u2019t.\u201d So then it\u2019s like figuring out how you break the beliefs of the external people that are going to keep them.\n Andrew: And how would you know what that is? How would you know who the external influencers are, that your potential customers are worried about?\n Russell: I think for most of us it\u2019s because the thing that we\u2019re selling is something that, one of our, Nick Barely said \u201cOur mess becomes our message.\u201d For most of us, what we\u2019re selling is the thing we struggled with before. So I think back about me as 12 year old Russell, watching Don Lepre, like what would have kept me back? And I would have been like, I can\u2019t afford classified ads. Like if you showed me how I can, if you could tell me a story of, oh my gosh I could afford classified ads. Now that belief\u2019s gone and now I\u2019m going to go give you money.\n It\u2019s just kind of remembering back to the state that you were in when you were trying to figure this stuff out as well.\n Andrew: Who was who I met when we were coming in here that said that they were part of Russell\u2019s mastermind and I asked how much did you pay and he said, \u201cI\u2019m not telling you.\u201d I can\u2019t see who that person was. But I know you got a mastermind, people coming in. I\u2019m wondering how much of it comes from that? working with people directly, seeing them in the group share openly, and then saying, ah, this is what my potential customers are feeling?\n Russell: 100% At this point especially. People always ask me, \u201cWhere do you go, Russell, to learn stuff?\u201d and it\u2019s my mastermind, because I bring, all the people come in and they\u2019re all in different industries and you see that. You see the road blocks that hold people back, but then they also share the stuff that they\u2019re doing and it\u2019s like, that\u2019s 100% now where I get most of my intell. Because people ask me, \u201cWhy, you\u2019re a software company, why in the world do you have a mastermind group?\u201d And it\u2019s because the reason why our software is good is because we have the mastermind group, where they\u2019re all crowd sourcing, they\u2019re doing all this stuff and bringing back to us, and then we\u2019re able to make shifts and pivots based on that.\n Andrew: Somehow we just lost Apple, but that\u2019s okay. It\u2019s back, good. There we go. This is the next thing, Rippln.\n Russell: I forgot I put that one in there.\n Andrew: I went back and I watched the YouTube video explaining it. It\u2019s a cartoon. I thought it was a professional voice over artist, no it\u2019s you. You\u2019re really comfortable getting on stage and talking. But basically in that video that you guys can see in the top left of your screen, it\u2019s Russell, through this voice over and cartoon explaining, \u201cLook, you guys were around in the early days of Facebook, you told your friends, here\u2019s how many friends you would have had, for the sake of numbers, let\u2019s say you told 7 people and let\u2019s say they told 7 people, and that\u2019s how things spread. And the same thing happened with Pinterest and all these other sites. Don\u2019t you ever wish that instead of making them rich by telling stuff, you made yourself rich? Well here\u2019s how Rippln comes in.\u201d and then you created it. And Rippln was what?\n Russell: So Rippln was actually one of my friend\u2019s ideas, and he is a network marketing guy so he\u2019s like, \u201cWe\u2019re building a network marketing program.\u201d And I\u2019d like dabbled in network marketing, never been involved with it. And he came and was like, \u201cHey, be part of this.\u201d And I was like, \u201cNo.\u201d and then he sold us on the whole pitch of the idea, network marketers are really good at selling you on vision, and I was like, \u201cOkay, that sounds awesome.\u201d\n And then my role was to write the pitch. So I wrote the pitch, did the voice over, did the video, and then we launched it and we had in six weeks, it was like 1.5 million people signed up for Rippln, and I thought it was like, \u201cThis is the thing, I\u2019m done.\u201d My down line was like half of the company. And I was like, when this thing goes live, it\u2019s going to be amazing. And then the tech side of it, what we\u2019re promising people in this video that the main developer ended up dying and he had all the code. So they had to restart building it in the middle of this thing.\n And it was like thing after thing and by the time it finally got done, everyone had lost interest. It was like 8 months later, and I think the biggest check I got was like $47 for the whole thing. And I was just like, I spent like 6 months of my life. It was like a penny a day. It was horrible.\n Andrew: I\u2019m just wondering whether I should ask this or not.\n Russell: Go for it.\n Andrew: So I stopped asking about religion, but I get the sense that you believe that there\u2019s a spiritual element here that keeps you from seeing, my down line is growing, the whole thing is working. Is any of this, does it feel divinely inspired to you? Be honest.\n Russell: Business or\u2026?\n Andrew: Business, life, success, things working out, so much so that when you\u2019re at your lowest, you feel like there\u2019s some divine guidance, some divine hand that says, \u201cRussell, it\u2019s going to work out. Russell, I don\u2019t know if I got you, but I know you got this. Go do it.\u201d I feel that from you and I\u2026\n Russell: I 100% believe that.\n Andrew: You do?\n Russell: Every bit of it. I believe that God gives us talents and gifts and abilities and then watches what we do with it. And if we do good then he increases our capacity to do more. And if we do good with it, increases our capacity\u2026\n Andrew: if you earn it? If you do good, if you use what God gives you, then you get more. So you think that that is your duty to do that and if you don\u2019t do more, if you don\u2019t pick yourself up after Rippln, you\u2019ve let down God. Do you believe that? Is that it? Or that you haven\u2019t lived up to\u2026\n Russell: Yeah, I don\u2019t think I feel that I\u2019ve let down God, but I definitely feel like I haven\u2019t lived up to my potential, you know. But also I feel like a lot of stuff, as I was putting together that document, all the pages, it\u2019s interesting because each one of them, looking in hindsight, each built upon the next thing and the next thing. And there\u2019s twice we tried to build Clickfunnels and each one was like the next level, and each one was a stepping stone. Like Rippln, if I wouldn\u2019t have done Rippln, that was my very first viral video we ever created. I learned how to pitch things and when we did the Clickfunnels initial sales video, because I had done this one, I knew how to do this one.\n So for me, it\u2019s less of like I let down God, as much as like, it\u2019s just like the piece, what are you going to do with this? Are you going to do something with it? It doesn\u2019t mean it\u2019s going to be successful, but it means, if you do well with this, then we\u2019re going to increase your capacity for the next step, and the next thing. But we definitely, especially in times at the office, we talk about this a lot. We definitely feel that what we do is a spiritual mission.\n Andrew: You do?\n Russell: 100% yeah. I don\u2019t think that it\u2019s just like, we\u2019re lucky. I think the way that the people have come, the partnerships, how it was created is super inspired.\n Andrew: You know what, a lot of us are selling things that are software, PDF guide, this, that, it\u2019s really hard to find the bigger mission in it. You\u2019re finding the bigger mission in Funnels. What is that bigger mission? Really, how do you connect with it? Because you\u2019re right, if you can find that bigger meaning then the work becomes more meaningful and you\u2019re working with become, it\u2019s more exciting to work with them, more meaningful to do it. How did you find it in funnels? What is the meaning?\n Russell: So for us, and I\u2019m thinking about members in my inner circle, so right now as of today I think we had 68,000 members in Clickfunnels, which is the big number we all brag about. But for me, that\u2019s 68,000 entrepreneurs, each one has a gift. So I think about, one member I\u2019ll mention his name\u2019s Chris Wark, he runs chrisbeatcancer.com and Chris was someone who came down with cancer and was given a death sentence, and instead of going through chemo therapy he decided, \u2018I\u2019m going to see if I can heal myself.\u201d And he did. Cleared himself of cancer.\n And then instead of just being like, \u2018cool, I\u2019m going to go back into work.\u2019 He was like, \u2018Man I need to help other people.\u2019 So he started a blog and started doing some things, and now he\u2019s got this thing where he\u2019s helped thousands and thousands of people to naturally cure themselves of cancer. And that\u2019s one of our 68,000 people.\n Andrew: See, you\u2019re focusing on him where I think a lot of us would focus on, here\u2019s one person who\u2019s just a smarmy marketer, and here\u2019s who\u2019s creating\u2026.but you don\u2019t. That\u2019s not who you are. Look, I see it in your eyes and you\u2019re shaking your head. That\u2019s not it at all, it\u2019s not even a put on.\n Russell: It\u2019s funny because for me it\u2019s like, I understand because I get it all the time from people all the time, \u201cOh he\u2019s this slimy marketer.\u201d The first time people meet me, all the time, the first time their introduced, that\u2019s a lot of times the first impression. And they get closer and they feel the heart and it\u2019s just like, \u201coh my gosh, I had you wrong.\u201d I get that all the time from people.\n Andrew: Brian, sorry Ryan and Brad, are either of them here? Would one of you come up here? Yeah, come on up. Because they felt that way, right?\n Russell: I don\u2019t know about them. I know who you\u2019re thinking about.\n Audience member: I think it\u2019s Theron.\n {Crosstalk}\n Andrew: No, no stay up here, as long as you\u2019re here. Theron come on up.\n Audience member: If it wasn\u2019t me, then I\u2019m going to sit back in the seats.\n Andrew: Are you nervous?\n Audience member: A little bit. Is there another Ryan and Brad?\n Russell: Different story, another story. Do you want to come up? Theron had no idea we were bringing him onstage.\n Andrew: Come on over here. Let\u2019s stand in the center so we can get you on camera. Does this help?\n Russell: Do you want me to introduce Theron real quick?\n Andrew: Yeah, please.\n Russell: So Theron is one of the Harmon Brothers, they\u2019re the ones who did the viral video for us.\n Andrew: I heard that you felt that he was a scam. What was the situation and how did you honestly feel?\n Theron: I don\u2019t know that it\u2026well\u2026\n Russell: Be honest.\n Theron: I know, I don\u2019t think that I felt that Clickfunnels itself was a scam,\n Russell: Just Russell.\n Theron: But that it just felt like so many of the ways that the funnels were built and the types of language they were using, it felt like it was that side of the internet. So I became very, well basically we were kind of in a desperate situation, where we had a video that had not performed and not worked out the way we wanted it to work out.\n Andrew: The video that you created for Russell?\n Theron: No, another client.\n Andrew: Another client, okay.\n Theron: And so our CEO had used Clickfunnels product to help drive, I think it was attendance to a big video event. And so he had some familiarity with the product, so he goes to Russell and at the same time Russell\u2019s like, \u201cI\u2019m a big fan of you guys.\u201d So he\u2019s coming to us and these things are happening. Yeah, it was almost the same day. So we\u2019re thinking like this and we\u2019re like, \u201cWell, they seem to really know how to drive traffic, to really know how to drive conversion. And we feellike we know how to drive conversion as well, but for some reason we missed it on this one.\u201d So we\u2019re like, \u201cWell, let\u2019s do a deal.\u201d\n Andrew: What do you mean missed it? Okay, go ahead, go through to the end.\n Theron: We were failing our client. We were failing on our client. We weren\u2019t giving them and ROI. So we said, let\u2019s do a deal with Russell and we\u2019ll have our internal team compete with his team, and we\u2019re humble enough to say we\u2019re failing our client. We want our client to succeed, let\u2019s bring in their team and see if they can make a funnel that can bring down the cost for acquisition, bring up the return on investment for our client, and they were able to do it.\xa0\n And then we said, what we\u2019ll do is we\u2019ll write a script, we\u2019ll take you through our script writing process, but we don\u2019t want to do the video because we don\u2019t want to be affiliated with you.\n Russell: The contract said, \u201cYou can\u2019t tell anyone ever that the Harmon Brothers wrote the script for you.\u201d\n Andrew: Wow, because you didn\u2019t want to be associated with something that you thought was a little too scammy for\u2026\n Theron: Yeah, we just didn\u2019t want our brand kind of brought down to their brand, which is super arrogant and really wrong headed. And in any case, so we go into this script writing training, and I wasn\u2019t following his podcast, I wasn\u2019t listening to enough. I mean, read Dotcom Secrets, those kinds of things are like, well, there\u2019s some really valuable stuff there, this is really interesting. A\n nd then as we got to know each other and really start to connect, like you said, heart to heart. And to feel what he\u2019s really about, and the types of team, the people that he surrounds himself with, I was like, wow, these are really, really good people. And they have a mission here that they feel, just like we feel that about our own group. And in any case, by the end of that 2 day retreat we\u2019re like, all off in private saying, \u201cFirst of all we like what we\u2019ve written and second of all, we\u2019d really like to work with these guys and I think we\u2019re plenty happy being connected to them and associated with them.\u201d So it\u2019s been a ride and a blessing ever since.\n Russell: We\u2019re about to start video number two with them.\n Andrew: You what?\n Russell: We\u2019re about to start video number two with them right now.\n Theron: Anyway, we love them.\n Andrew: Alright, give him a big round, yeah. Thanks. This was pivotal for you guys. Lead Pages, there\u2019s an article about how Lead Pages raised $5 million, and you saw that and you thought\u2026\n Russell: Well, what happened was Todd, so Todd\u2019s the cofounder of Clickfunnels, and he was working with us at the time and he would fly to Boise about once a quarter and we\u2019d work on the next project, the new idea. And that morning he woke up and he saw that, and then he forwarded me the article. And he\u2019s Atlanta, so it\u2019s east coast, so I\u2019m still in bed. And he\u2019s got a 4 hour flight to Boise and he\u2019s just getting angry, because Todd is, Todd\u2019s like a genius. He literally, when he landed in Boise and he saw me and he\u2019s like, \u201cWe can build Lead Pages tonight. I will clone, I will beat it. We\u2019re going to launch this, this week while we\u2019re here.\u201d\n He\u2019s that good of a developer. He, I\u2019ve never seen someone code as fast and as good as him. He\u2019s amazing. So he comes in, he\u2019s mad because he\u2019s like, \u201cThis is the stupidest site in the world. We could literally clone this. Let\u2019s just do it.\u201d And I\u2019m like, \u201cYes, let\u2019s clone it.\u201d And we\u2019re all excited and then he\u2019s like, \u201cDo you want me to add any other features while I\u2019m doing it.\u201d And I\u2019m like, \u2018Oh, yes. We should do this, and we should do this.\u201d And then the scope creep from the marketer comes, and we ended up spending an entire week in front of a whiteboard mapping out all my dreams, \u201cIf we could do this and this and what kind of shopping cart, and we could do upsells, and what if we could actually move things on the page instead of just having it sit there. And what if\u2026\u201d and Todd\u2019s just taking notes and everything.\n And then he\u2019s like, \u201cOkay, I think I could do this.\u201d And he told me though, \u201cIf I do this, I don\u2019t want to do this as an employee. I want to do this as a partner.\u201d And at first I was like, ugh, because I didn\u2019t want to do the partnership thing. And then the best decision I\u2019ve ever made in my life, outside of marrying my wife was saying yes to Todd. Said, \u201cLet\u2019s do it.\u201d And then he flew home and built Clickfunnels.\n Andrew: Wow. And this is after trying software so much. I have screenshots of all the different, it\u2019s not even worth going into it, of all the different products you created, there was one about, it was digital repo, right?\n Russell: That was a good idea.\n Andrew: Digital Repo, man. What was\u2026.\n Russell: So I used to sell ebooks and stuff, and people would steal it and email it to their friends and I\u2019d get angry.\n Andrew: Can I read this? How to protect every type of lowlife and other form of human scum from cheating you from the profits you should be making by hijacking, stealing, and illegally prostituting\u2026.your online digital products.\n Russell: Theron, why did you think we were\u2026..Just kidding. So no, it was this really cool product where you take an ebook and it would protect it, and if somebody gave it to their friend, you could push a button and it would take back access. It was like the coolest thing in the world, we thought.\n Andrew: And there was software that was going to attach your ad to any other software that was out there. There was software that was going to, what are some of the other ones? It\u2019s going to hit me later on. But we\u2019re talking about a dozen different pieces of software, a dozen different attempts at software. What\u2019s one? I thought somebody remembered one of them. They\u2019re just the kind of stuff you\u2019d never think of. There was one that was kind of like Clickfunnels, an early version of Clickfunnels for landing pages. Why did you want to get into software when you were teaching, creating membership sites? What was software, what was drawing you to it?\n Russell: I think honestly, when I first learned this internet marketing game, the first mentor I had, the first person I saw was a guy name Armand Morin and Armand had all these little software products. Ecover generator, sales letter generator, everything generator, so that\u2019s what I kept seeing. I was like, I need to create software because he made software. In fact, I even shifted my major from, I can\u2019t remember what it was before, to computer information systems, because I was like, I\u2019m going to learn how to code, because I couldn\u2019t afford programmers.\n And then that\u2019s just kind of what I\u2019d seen. And then I was trying to think of ideas for software. And every time I would get stuck, instead of trying to find something to do, I\u2019d be like let me just, let me just hire a guy to go build that, and then I can sell it somebody else as well. So that\u2019s kind of how it started.\n Andrew: And it was a lot of different tools, a lot of different attempts, and then this one was the one that you went with. I think this is an early version of the home page, basically saying, \u201cComing soon, sign up.\u201d The first one didn\u2019t work out. And then you saw someone else on a forum who had a version that was better. What was his name? This is I think Dylan Jones.\n Russell: Oh you\u2019re talking about the editor, yes. Okay, so the story was, Todd built the first version of Clickfunnels and Dylan who became one of our cofounders, I\u2019d been working with Dylan as a designer for about 6 years prior. And he his hands, and we talked about this earlier, he is the best designer I\u2019ve ever seen in my life, he is amazing. He would, but he\u2019s also, this is the pros and cons of Dylan.\n He, I\u2019ve talked about this onstage at Funnel Hacking Live, so I have no problem saying this. He would agree. But I would give him a project, and I couldn\u2019t hear, he wouldn\u2019t respond back to me, and I wouldn\u2019t hear from him for 2 or 3 months, and then one day in the middle of the night he messaged me, \u201cHey, rent\u2019s due tomorrow. Do you have any projects for me?\u201d and I\u2019d be so mad at him, and I look back at every project we\u2019d done in the last 3 or 4 months that other designers had done, and I\u2019d just resend him all the lists, just boom, give him 12 sites and I\u2019d go to bed. I\u2019d wake up 5 or 6 hours later and all of them were done, perfectly, amazing, some of the best designs ever, and then he\u2019d send me a bill for whatever, and then I\u2019d send him money and he\u2019d disappear again for like 5 months.\n And I could never get a hold of him. I\u2019d be like, \u201cI need you to tweak something.\u201d And he was just gone. And that was my pattern for 6 years with him. And then fast forward to when Todd and I were building Clickfunnels, we were at Traffic Conversion and we were up in the hotel room at like 3 in the morning trying to, we were on dribble.com trying to find a UI designer to help us, and we couldn\u2019t get a hold of all these people, and all the sudden on Skype Dylan popped in, I saw his thing pop up. I was like, \u201cTodd, Dylan just showed up.\u201d And he\u2019s like, \u201cDo you think he needs some money?\u201d I\u2019m like, \u201cI guarantee he needs money.\u201d\n So I\u2019m like, \u201cHey man!\u201d And Dylan messaged back. He\u2019s like, \u201cHey.\u201d I\u2019m like, \u201cDo you need some money?\u201d and he\u2019s like, \u201cYeah, you got any projects?\u201d I\u2019m like, \u201cYes, I do.\u201d I\u2019m like, \u201cWe built this cool thing, it\u2019s called Clickfunnels, but the UI is horrible and the editor is horrible and there\u2019s any way we could hire you for a week to fly to Boise and just do all the UI for every single page of the app?\u201d and he kind of said no at first because, \u201cI\u2019m developing my own website builder. I might have spent 6 years on it, so I can\u2019t do it.\u201d\n Andrew: It was this, he had something that was essentially Clickfunnels, right?\n Russell: No, no. It was just pages though, so it\u2019d just do pages, there was no funnels.\n Andrew: Right, closer to Lead Pages.\n Russell: Lead Pages, but amazing. You could move things around. But he did tell me that, \u201cI\u2019m working on something.\u201d So eventually we got him to come, flew to Boise, spent a week, did all of our UI, and then we went and launched our beta to my list. So we launched the beta, got some signups, and then a week before the launch, launch was supposed to happen, all the affiliates were lined up, everything was supposed to happen. He sends me, I don\u2019t know if he sent you the video, but he sends me this little video that\u2019s like a 30 second video of him demoing the editor he\u2019d built. And I probably watched that video, I don\u2019t know, at least a hundred times. And I was just sick to my stomach because I was like, \u201cI hate Clickfunnels right now. I can\u2019t move things on my pages, I can\u2019t do anything.\u201d\n I was just, and I sent it to Todd and then I didn\u2019t hear from him for like an hour, and he messaged me back and he\u2019s like, \u201cI\u2019m pissed.\u201d I\u2019m like, \u201cMe too.\u201d And I\u2019m like, \u201cWhat do we do?\u201d and I was like, \u201cWe have to have his editor or I don\u2019t even want to sell this thing.\u201d And I called Dylan and I\u2019m like, \u201cWould you be willing to sell?\u201d and he\u2019s like, \u201cNo, I\u2019m selling it and we\u2019re going to sell it for $100.\u201d It was like $100 this one time for this editor that designed all the websites. I was like, \u201cDude, it is worth so much more than that. Please?\u201d and we spent all night going back and forth negotiating. And finally, we came to like, \u201cI will give you this editor if I can be a cofounder and be a partner.\u201d And Todd and I sat there, brainstorming and figured out if we could do it and finally said yes. And then him and Dylan and Todd flew back to Boise and for the next week just sat in a room with a whole bunch of caffeine and figured out how to smush Dylan\u2019s editor into Clickfunnels to get the editor to be the editor that you guys know today.\nLearn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices