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In this interview, we discuss an overview of no code, why the metrics that gauge success or lack thereof for IT departments are flawed, and how companies need to reward their technologists based on the value they achieve, rather than being on time and on budget. We also discuss why Gary left the CIO ranks, and we cover his advice for others looking to do the same and start their own companies. Lastly, we discuss why Gary believes that you can always improve a big company, some of the groundbreaking things Unqork has done with large enterprises, and a variety of other topics.