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In this podcast Tom Uren and Patrick Gray talk about the evolving relationship between Russian intelligence services and the country\u2019s cybercriminals. The GRU\u2019s sabotage unit, for example, has been recruiting crooks to build a destructive cyber capability. Tom suspects that GRU thugs are not so good at hands-on-keyboard operations, but excellent at coercing weedy cybercriminals to hack for the state.\n\nThey also talk about OpenAI\u2019s report into malicious actor\u2019s use of its models, and how Australia\u2019s proposed cyber security law looks pretty sensible.