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In this podcast Tom Uren and Patrick Gray talk about the possibility of deterring Volt Typhoon, the Chinese group that is compromising US critical infrastructure to enable future disruption operations in the event of a conflict with US. Tom thinks it is not possible to deter Volt Typhoon, but things might work the other way. If the US can neuter Volt Typhoon and take away the PRC\u2019s magic cyber bullet, it could make conflict less likely.\n\nThey also discuss the lessons for all companies in Microsoft\u2019s security turnaround and how X and Telegram have folded in the face of government pressure.\n\nThe video version of this episode is also available on Youtube.