In this podcast Tom Uren and Patrick Gray discuss an Australian government effort to bridge the gap between online and real identity across the whole economy. It addresses a real need, but Tom doesn\u2019t think it will go smoothly.\n\nThey also discuss ongoing Chinese cyber espionage focussed on Russian targets. They may have a \u2018no limits\u2019 friendship, but spying between allies is remarkably common.\n\nThis episode is also available on Youtube.