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This episode is a tale of what happens when some employers decide to open up a few virtual front doors and when these virtual front doors lead only to referrals to providers who are willing to be accountable and offer financial predictability. That\u2019s what these employers want, after all. They want accountability and financial predictability.

Many employers now have access to all claims databases and other data like the RAND 3.0 report. Therefore, employers can and are using this information in a big way to steer their plan member populations.

Given these goings-on, some slower-moving providers could easily find themselves on the outside looking in. So, who are those providers who are or will be getting shut out of referral flows? They\u2019re definitely FFS-centric, but they could be a large health system, an urgent care center, or a hospital-owned PCP.

In this health care podcast, I speak with Jeff Hogan, the northeast regional manager for Rogers Benefit Group and also president of Upside Health Advisors. We talk in this episode not about what might be theoretically possible but about what is happening right now.

Jeffrey Hogan is the northeast regional manager for Rogers Benefit Group, a national benefits marketing and consulting firm. Jeff has been with Rogers Benefit Group for 30 years. Additionally, Jeff operates a consulting firm, Upside Health Advisors, where he provides expert witness services on health care\u2013related litigation, is a consultant to payers and large provider groups for product development and launch, and is a resource to employers desirous of implementing strategies to manage their health spend. Jeff is focused on health care payment reform, health policy, care coordination, value-based health care, health care quality, and precision medicine.

Jeff regularly appears on national forums focused on moving to value-based health care and is actively working to promote health care\u2013related transparency measures in the market. He serves as the group\u2019s liaison to the National Alliance of Healthcare Purchaser Coalitions. Jeff is the regional leader for The Leapfrog Group. He is also one of the coordinators of Connecticut\u2019s Moving to Value Alliance.

01:43 What are self-insured employers doing right now to impact referral flows?
03:29 Are any virtual tech companies moving in on the local provider space?
07:46 \u201cWhat we\u2019re trying to do \u2026 is to help the member have the best outcome.\u201d
10:32 \u201cIt\u2019s a continuum, if you will.\u201d
10:44 \u201cThere is a fairly significant gulf between providers \u2026 and, say, a COE [Center of Excellence].\u201d
11:13 \u201cWhat is value for employers coming out of COVID? Accountability and predictability.\u201d
13:40 What are second-order effects?
14:29 \u201cPeople like and want better access.\u201d
14:46 \u201cFee-for-service providers fear the informed health care consumer.\u201d
22:19 \u201cMany of the brick-and-mortar providers are realizing that they have to up their game.\u201d
24:52 \u201cThings will change.\u201d
25:07 \u201cPeople not only want convenience, but they want safety, they want data.\u201d
26:11 \u201cWe are at an inflection point \u2026 After 35 years in the business, I really finally feel like we\u2019ve broken through.\u201d
27:31 \u201cThis requires people to really think; it requires employers to actually know what their biggest problems are.\u201d
29:53 \u201cWe can\u2019t go back to the fragmentation of fee for service.\u201d
30:25 \u201cData is critical.\u201d

Jeff Hogan of #UpsideHealthAdvisors and #RogersBenefitGroup discusses #FFS providers in our #healthcarepodcast. #healthcare #podcast #digitalhealth

What are self-insured employers doing right now to impact referral flows? Jeff Hogan of #UpsideHealthAdvisors and #RogersBenefitGroup discusses #FFS providers in our #healthcarepodcast. #healthcare #podcast #digitalhealth

Are any virtual tech companies moving in on the local provider space? Jeff Hogan of #UpsideHealthAdvisors and #RogersBenefitGroup discusses #FFS providers in our #healthcarepodcast. #healthcare #podcast #digitalhealth

\u201cWhat we\u2019re trying to do \u2026 is to help the member have the best outcome.\u201d Jeff Hogan of #UpsideHealthAdvisors and #RogersBenefitGroup discusses #FFS providers in our #healthcarepodcast. #healthcare #podcast #digitalhealth

\u201cThere is a fairly significant gulf between providers \u2026 and, say, a COE [Center of Excellence]\u201d Jeff Hogan of #UpsideHealthAdvisors and #RogersBenefitGroup discusses #FFS providers in our #healthcarepodcast. #healthcare #podcast #digitalhealth

\u201cWhat is value for employers coming out of COVID? Accountability and predictability.\u201d Jeff Hogan of #UpsideHealthAdvisors and #RogersBenefitGroup discusses #FFS providers in our #healthcarepodcast. #healthcare #podcast #digitalhealth

\u201cPeople like and want better access.\u201d Jeff Hogan of #UpsideHealthAdvisors and #RogersBenefitGroup discusses #FFS providers in our #healthcarepodcast. #healthcare #podcast #digitalhealth

\u201cFee-for-service providers fear the informed health care consumer.\u201d Jeff Hogan of #UpsideHealthAdvisors and #RogersBenefitGroup discusses #FFS providers in our #healthcarepodcast. #healthcare #podcast #digitalhealth

\u201cPeople not only want convenience, but they want safety, they want data.\u201d Jeff Hogan of #UpsideHealthAdvisors and #RogersBenefitGroup discusses #FFS providers in our #healthcarepodcast. #healthcare #podcast #digitalhealth

\u201cWe are at an inflection point \u2026 After 35 years in the business, I really finally feel like we\u2019ve broken through.\u201d Jeff Hogan of #UpsideHealthAdvisors and #RogersBenefitGroup discusses #FFS providers in our #healthcarepodcast. #healthcare #podcast #digitalhealth

\u201cThis requires people to really think; it requires employers to actually know what their biggest problems are.\u201d Jeff Hogan of #UpsideHealthAdvisors and #RogersBenefitGroup discusses #FFS providers in our #healthcarepodcast. #healthcare #podcast #digitalhealth

\u201cWe can\u2019t go back to the fragmentation of fee for service.\u201d Jeff Hogan of #UpsideHealthAdvisors and #RogersBenefitGroup discusses #FFS providers in our #healthcarepodcast. #healthcare #podcast #digitalhealth

\u201cData is critical.\u201d Jeff Hogan of #UpsideHealthAdvisors and #RogersBenefitGroup discusses #FFS providers in our #healthcarepodcast. #healthcare #podcast #digitalhealth