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In the American conversation, there is a large overlap between class and race. Yet very often, we underplay the role that class plays in the dynamics of our legal system

In today\u2019s episode, Hunter chats with Amari Harris, the Equity Diversity and Inclusion Attorney for Virginia Public Defenders to discuss those dynamics and more.

He describes his much-needed position within the Virginia public defense system, the broken payment structure for contract attorneys, the ways in which Virginia prosecutors can engage in trial by ambush, and the important of crafting public messaging around public defense to fit the demographics and needs of the communities they serve.

Amari bridges the gap between practicing public defenders and their clients\u2014helping them effectively approach each client\u2019s unique life experiences.

This episode challenges people to constantly think about how messaging around public defense will most effectively get people across the racial and socioeconmic spectrum to care about public defense reform.

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Key Topics and Takeaways:

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• An overview of the Virginia public defense system & Amari\u2019s role within it. [3:04]
• Why many cases don\u2019t get an investigation even though they need one. [18:26]\xa0
• The negative impacts of \u201ctrial by ambush.\u201d [21:03]
• Ways that the rural areas are disadvantaged in Virginia. [24:57]
• How Amari handles the massive amount of diversity in the state. [30:58]
• Amari walks you through Virginia indigency standards. [43:55]
• Hunter and Amari dig deep into class arguments. [46:15]
• Amari\u2019s goals for a better public defense system of tomorrow in Virginia. [50:01]

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Guest:

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Amari Harris, Equity Diversity and Inclusion Attorney for Virginia Public Defenders

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Resources:

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Virginia Defenders

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Justice Forward

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Gideon\u2019s Promise

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2016 ACLU report on Prosecutor Power

\u201cUnparalleled Power: Commonwealth\u2019s Attorneys, Voters and Criminal Just Reform in Virginia\u201d. American Civil Liberties Union. June 2016. At Page 1-5.\xa0

Memorable Quotes:

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\u201cBeing a great lawyer is fantastic, but you could be a great lawyer and a bad public defender if you can\u2019t relate to your clients, if you can\u2019t engender yourself to the community in some way, then you\u2019re doing our clients a disservice.\u201d (6:20, Amari)

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\u201cIf there\u2019s one thing that I know from just looking nationally, when you have a flat fee structure like this, you\u2019re not getting investigation.\u201d (18:09, Hunter)

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\u201cJust having someone that thinks a little bit differently than another person in the room makes that other person so much smarter than if they just read about the information.\u201d (32:46, Amari)

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\u201cIf we think of diversity and inclusion only as representing ethnic and racial things, you\u2019re missing the point.\u201d (34:53, Hunter)

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\u201cI think race does dictate a lot of what goes on in the criminal justice system and it\u2019s been historic, but if you lead with that, then you will lose a lot of people.\u201d (42:59, Amari)

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\u201cEvery public defender who stays in this long enough will work under blue and red administration.\xa0 And the idea that you simply have to throw up your hands and go \u2018well shucks, wait till the guy who agrees with me comes into office\u2019 is not workable.\u201d (49:30, Hunter)

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