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\u201cNeatkar\u012bgi no t\u0101, kur atrodies, kaut vai dro\u0161\u012bb\u0101, mier\u012bg\u0101 vid\u0113, tom\u0113r k\u0101da da\u013ca no tevis vienm\u0113r ir b\u0113d\u0101s un satraukum\u0101,\u201d t\u0101 sarun\u0101 ar Rihardu Pl\u016bmi nor\u0101da Olha Horbenko - ukrainiete, kura p\u0113c liel\u0101 kara s\u0101kuma ar \u0123imeni p\u0101rc\u0113l\u0101s uz V\u0101ciju. K\u0101 iejusties V\u0101cij\u0101, k\u0101da ir attieksme pret tur m\u012bto\u0161ajiem krieviem un k\u0101da ir v\u0101cie\u0161u izpratne par karu un attieksme pret ukrai\u0146iem?\n\nSavuk\u0101rt D\u012bvs Reiznieks V\u0101cijas M\u0101r\u0161ala fonda Zieme\u013cu novirziena vad\u012bt\u0101ju un dro\u0161\u012bbas politikas p\u0113tnieci Krist\u012bni B\u0113rzi\u0146u iztauj\u0101 par \u0161\u0101diem jaut\u0101jumiem:\n\xb7\xa0 \xa0 \xa0 \xa0Francijas prezidents neizsl\u0113dz Eiropas karav\u012bru par\u0101d\u012b\u0161anos Ukrain\u0101. Ko noz\u012bm\u0113 \u0161is p\u0101rsteidzo\u0161ais pazi\u0146ojums?\xa0\n\xb7\xa0 \xa0 \xa0 \xa0Vai Francija un V\u0101cija st\u012bv\u0113jas par l\u012bdera lomu?\xa0\n\xb7\xa0 \xa0 \xa0 \xa0K\u0101 Zviedrijas pievieno\u0161an\u0101s NATO ietekm\u0113s 5. panta realiz\u0101ciju Baltij\u0101?\xa0\n\n\xa0\n\nEpizodes gaita:\xa0\n\n00:31 Ievads\n04:11 Dro\u0161in\u0101t\u0101ja ekspertes Krist\u012bnes B\u0113rzi\u0146as koment\u0101rs \u0161oreiz par \u0161\u0101d\u0101m aktualit\u0101t\u0113m:\n05.26 Pirmo reizi no Eiropas l\u012bderiem izskan fr\u0101ze par to, ka nav izsl\u0113dzama versija par Eiropas valstu karav\u012briem Ukrain\u0101 \u2013 sp\u0113c\u012bgs un noz\u012bm\u012bgs sign\u0101ls Krievijai.\n10:00 Ukrainas t\u0113ma \u2013 ar\u0113na c\u012b\u0146ai par dominanci starp Par\u012bzi un Berl\u012bni?\n11:58 Nav skaidrs Francijas pal\u012bdz\u012bbas apjoms.\n12:39 V\u0101cija paties\u012bb\u0101 dara \u013coti daudz, ar komunik\u0101ciju rada sev probl\u0113mas.\n15:27 \u0160\u012b nav tikai brav\u016br\u012bga run\u0101\u0161ana, bet apliecin\u0101jums, ka Eiropa turpin\u0101s atbalst\u012bt Ukrainu. Katrs cit\u0101d\u0101 veid\u0101.\n17:25 Latvij\u0101 izrais\u012bjusies diskusija par NATO 5.pantu, bet k\u0101 NATO sp\u0113jas \u012bstenot aizsardz\u012bbas pas\u0101kumus ietekm\u0113 gaid\u0101m\u0101 Zviedrijas pievieno\u0161an\u0101s aliansei, kas p\u0113c Ung\u0101rijas parlamenta balsojuma ir zaud\u0113jusi p\u0113d\u0113jos \u0161\u0137\u0113r\u0161\u013cus?\n24:55 Rihards un D\u012bvs par Krist\u012bnes teikto\n27:04 EXPLAINER: Cik daudz \u0101rzemnieku karo Ukrainas pus\u0113? UN ko pret\u012b liek Krievija?\n28:50 EXPLAINER: Cik daudz ukrai\u0146u p\u0101rc\u0113lu\u0161ies uz Eiropu un k\u0101da vi\u0146u dz\u012bve Eirop\u0101?\n32:23 Rihards par pieredzi k\u0101d\u0101 Minhenes krodzi\u0146iem ar krievu un ukrai\u0146u komp\u0101niju.\n33:53 Piesak\u0101m \u0161\u012bs epizodes galveno viesi \u2013 Olhu Horbenko, - ukrainieti, kura p\u0113c liel\u0101 kara s\u0101kuma p\u0101rc\u0113l\u0101s uz V\u0101ciju.\n35:48 Olha par to, ka, pirms liel\u0101 kara s\u0101kuma, ar \u0123imeni dz\u012bvojusi D\u0146ipro un p\u0113c tam Kijiv\u0101.\xa0\nT\u0113vs un meita \u0161obr\u012bd dz\u012bvo Kijiv\u0101\n37:11 P\u0101rcelties prom no Ukrainas ir sare\u017e\u0123\u012bts un \u013coti individu\u0101ls l\u0113mums katram.\n41:39 Olha par sevi k\u0101 diplom\u0113tu psihologu, kas jau 17 gadus pal\u012bdz gr\u016btniec\u0113m un dzemd\u012bbu laik\u0101. Tagad ir diplom\u0113ta d\u016bla.\n44:32 S\u0101koties karam, k\u0101 d\u016bla var\u0113ja pal\u012bdz\u0113t \u013coti daudz\u0101m ukrainiet\u0113m V\u0101cij\u0101.\n48:51 Pat ja b\u016btu iesp\u0113ja, v\u012brs visdr\u012bz\u0101k no Ukrainas prom nebrauktu.\n50:01 Meita uz kara atn\u0101k\u0161anu rea\u0123\u0113ja \u013coti emocion\u0101li, t\u0101d\u0113\u013c ar b\u0113rniem pameta Ukrainu.\n50:55 P\u0113d\u0113j\u0101s dien\u0101s pirms liel\u0101 kara.\n54:29 Liel\u0101 kara pirm\u0101s dienas.\n58:28 Pametot Kijivu, nebija domas, ka tas b\u016bs uz m\u0113ne\u0161iem vai gadiem.\n59:19 S\u0101kum\u0101 izmitin\u0101j\u0101s U\u017egorod\u0101, bet uz V\u0101ciju p\u0101rc\u0113l\u0101s p\u0113c draudzenes ieteikuma.\n1:01:00 \u0160\u0137ir\u0161an\u0101s no v\u012bra, kur\u0161 palika Ukrain\u0101, bija \u013coti smaga.\n1:02:04 Ce\u013c\u0161 uz V\u0101ciju.\n1:03:28 Eirop\u0101 sastap\u0101s ar necer\u0113ti pozit\u012bvu uz\u0146em\u0161anu.\n1:10:58 Ukrai\u0146u diaspora Minhen\u0113 \u013coti akt\u012bva un atsauc\u012bga.\n1:12:35 Apg\u016bst v\u0101cu valodu, jo t\u0101 ir gan nepiecie\u0161am\u012bba, gan iesp\u0113ja.\n1:13:56 Meitai skol\u0101 g\u0101ja gr\u016bti, vi\u0146a ilgoj\u0101s p\u0113c m\u0101j\u0101m, t\u0101d\u0113\u013c p\u0113c pusotra gada V\u0101cij\u0101 tik nolemts, ka vi\u0146a atgriez\u012bsies m\u0101j\u0101s.\n1:16:38 Olha par palik\u0161anu V\u0101cij\u0101, kur vi\u0146a nevar dot liel\u0101ku labumu, nek\u0101 esot Ukrain\u0101.\n1:18:44 K\u0101p\u0113c krieviski vairs nev\u0113las run\u0101t.\n1:23:11 V\u0101cie\u0161u attieksme pret notieko\u0161o Ukrain\u0101.\n1:28:27 Attieksme pret karu sa\u0161\u0137\u0113lusi daudzas \u0123imenes.\n1:31:06 Olha ukrai\u0146u mobiliz\u0101cijai Eirop\u0101 netic.\n1:32:46 Attiec\u012bbas ar Minhen\u0113 dz\u012bvojo\u0161ajiem krieviem.\n1:36:58 K\u0101p\u0113c svar\u012bgi, lai Ukraina \u0161aj\u0101 kar\u0101 uzvar\u0113tu.\n1:40:47 Sarunas beigas.\n1:41:06 Rihards un D\u012bvs p\u0101rrun\u0101 dzird\u0113to.\n1:42:15 Rakstiet mums un padalieties ar saiti uz raid\u012bjumu.\n\n\xa0\n\nViss svar\u012bg\u0101kais par karu Ukrain\u0101 ir un b\u016bs vienuviet \u2013 Latvijas Radio raidieraksta \u201cDro\u0161in\u0101t\u0101js\u201d jaun\u0101kaj\u0101 epizod\u0113.\n\nJa v\u0113lies, lai izskaidro k\u0101du tev interes\u0113jo\u0161u jaut\u0101jumu par notieko\u0161o Ukrain\u0101 vai v\u0113lies ieteikt intervijas varoni, raksti: drosinatajs@latvijasradio.lv vai ver va\u013c\u0101 linktr.ee/drosinatajs