Tom welcomes on Mathew Gibson. They discuss Mathew's early experiences and Tom tries to talk about the religion of ADnD with the sadness that RuneQuest did not stay with Mathew long after his evangelism. Is there a contrast between richness of environments and complexity of rules. Tom asks about miniatures and provides some discussion of miniatures in Australia in the 1980s. They discuss narrative and whether it is possible to have a game with no rules. Tom outlines his plans with the First Chechen Wars rules and also a ruleset covering 600-1000 AD in England. The questions delve deep into the introduction of ideas through role playing.