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Today\u2019s show is a special episode with difficult and sensitive topics. We\u2019ll be hearing about Nora and her story of postpartum psychosis and filicide. We have the honor of hearing from Nora\u2019s mother, Kathryn Gahl. She will share from her perspective as a mother and what it\u2019s been like to see what Nora has been through and continues to experience in her imprisonment after filicide. We\u2019ll also hear from Dr. Brooke Laufer, a clinical psychologist who picked up on this case and has followed it closely. Nora has given her permission for us to have this conversation with Brooke and Kathryn about her case. The goal is to get information out in the public about postpartum psychosis, its detection, and treatment. Join us to hear the mother\u2019s perspective, the clinical perspective, and what\u2019s going on in Nora\u2019s life right now.\nNora\u2019s mother, Kathryn Gahl, became a widely-published, multi-genre writer after a long career as a nurse manager. She is the mother of a daughter and a son, and in 2004, she lost her young grandson to filicide. Now, her bookshelves sag with letters from her imprisoned daughter, who is also a registered nurse. Kathryn believes in the transformative power of dance, dark chocolate, and red lipstick to help her get through life.\nBrooke Laufer has been a practicing psychologist since 2005. She began her clinical work in psychiatric wards with severely mentally ill patients and then worked in schools with adolescents and their families. She is currently in private practice doing psychoanalytic psychotherapy. After having her first child, Brooke had a disturbing postpartum OCD experience, which inspired her to begin researching, understanding, and specializing in the area of perinatal mental illness. She recently started working as an expert witness for women who have committed a crime in a postpartum episode. Brooke has two children of her own, along with a Golden Retriever and a loyal husband; they live, work, and play in Evanston, Illinois.\nShow Highlights:\n\nThe overview of Nora\u2019s story, from Kathryn\n\nNora\u2019s experience: suffocating her 14-month-old son, Leo, and then attempting suicide because of her postpartum psychosis\n\nCircumstances that contributed to Leo\u2019s death\n\nNora\u2019s psychiatric diagnoses: major depressive disorder severe with paranoid ideation, excessive-compulsive personality disorder, and PTSD\n\nWhat these events were like for Kathryn\n\nHow Kathryn\u2019s writing and dancing have helped her cope with these horrifying events\n\nHow Kathryn was surprised at the people evaporated from her life and those who stepped up to support and help her\n\nHow Brooke got involved through corresponding with Nora because of a childhood connection\n\nWhy Nora believed she deserved to suffer and be punished\n\nAltruistic filicide (defined as believing that bringing death to the child is better than if the child survives) is an apt label for Nora\n\nWhat it\u2019s like to be in a state like Wisconsin, where a case like this gets very little support and legal consideration\n\nWhy Nora made the decision to plead guilty\n\nThe main issue is how poorly we treat mental health issues in our US legal system that is deeply flawed\n\nHow other countries deal with mental health, motherhood, and postpartum psychosis\n\nHow Kathryn dealt with this experience with only one bout of depression\n\nWhy postpartum psychosis is an issue that shows the failure of our culture\n\nA message from Brooke: \u201cWe need to understand that motherhood is equally dark and light. We need to ask for good help when we need it.\u201d\n\nWhy family members need to speak up when a mom seems \u201coff\u201d\n\nA message from Kathryn: \u201cTrust your hunch.\u201d\n\nThe dire need for more postpartum screening\n\nResources:\nDr. Brooke Laufer\nKathryn Gahl\nGahlstone\nTwitter: @kathryngahl