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Melissa Perri is the CEO of Produx Labs, a product management training organization; author of the seminal PM book The Build Trap; and a former Harvard Business School professor of product management. Denise Tilles is the CPO at Grocket, Melissa\u2019s colleague at Produx Labs, and a seasoned product leader with over a decade of experience. Together they authored the new book Product Operations: How successful companies build better products at scale. In today\u2019s episode, they share insights, strategies, and real-world experiences to master all things product ops. We discuss:

\u2022 What exactly product operations is

\u2022 The three pillars of the product ops role

\u2022 The biggest benefits of adding product ops to your organization

\u2022 Which tasks product managers should offload to product ops and which they need to own

\u2022 How to help PMs embrace the value of product ops

\u2022 Examples of companies that have implemented product ops well

\u2022 Who and how to hire for this role

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This entire episode is brought to you by Jira Product Discovery\u2014Atlassian\u2019s new prioritization and roadmapping tool built for product teams

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Find the full transcript at: https://www.lennyspodcast.com/the-ultimate-guide-to-product-operations-melissa-perri-and-denise-tilles/#transcript

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Where to find Melissa Perri:

\u2022 X: https://twitter.com/lissijean

\u2022 LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/melissajeanperri/

\u2022 Website: https://produxlabs.com/

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Where to find Denise Tilles:

\u2022 X: https://twitter.com/dtilles

\u2022 LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/denisetilles/

\u2022 Website: https://www.denisetilles.com

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Where to find Lenny:

\u2022 Newsletter: https://www.lennysnewsletter.com

\u2022 X: https://twitter.com/lennysan

\u2022 LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/lennyrachitsky/

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In this episode, we cover:

(00:00) About our guests, Melissa Perri and Denise Tilles

(03:46) How common is the product operations role?

(07:41) The benefits of having a product ops person in your organization

(09:16) How to help PMs embrace the value of product ops

(11:44) The three pillars of the product ops role

(15:25) How user research fits in

(18:35) Why product ops will be an essential role for product managers to thrive

(24:24) Which tasks product managers should offload to product ops and which they need to own

(28:58) Project management vs. product ops

(29:44) The jobs of a product ops person

(37:38) Why the product ops role will never become obsolete

(39:31) How many product ops people you need

(45:13) First steps in building out a product ops team

(47:06) What to look for in your first hire

(51:11) Key skills needed for a product ops person

(57:29) Who product ops should report to

(59:50) An example of rolling out product ops at Athena Health

(1:09:35) Lightning round

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Referenced:

\u2022 Product Operations: How successful companies build better products at scale:\xa0https://www.productoperations.com/

\u2022 Produx Labs: https://produxlabs.com

\u2022 How to create a winning product strategy | Melissa Perri: https://www.lennyspodcast.com/how-to-create-a-winning-product-strategy-melissa-perri/

\u2022 Blake Samic on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/blakesamic/

\u2022 Escaping the Build Trap: How Effective Product Management Creates Real Value: https://www.amazon.com/Escaping-Build-Trap-Effective-Management/dp/149197379X

\u2022 Athena Health: https://www.athenahealth.com/

\u2022 Pendo: https://www.pendo.io/

\u2022 PopSQL: https://popsql.com/

\u2022 Understanding the role of product ops | Christine Itwaru (Pendo): https://www.lennyspodcast.com/understanding-the-role-of-product-ops-christine-itwaru-pendo/

\u2022 Doodle: https://doodle.com/en/

\u2022 Stephanie Leue on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/stephanie-leue/

\u2022 Jira: https://www.atlassian.com/software/jira

\u2022 Dovetail: https://dovetail.com/

\u2022 Looker: https://cloud.google.com/looker/

\u2022 Brian Bhuta on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/brianbhuta/

\u2022 How to sell your ideas and rise within your company | Casey Winters, Eventbrite: https://www.lennyspodcast.com/how-to-sell-your-ideas-and-rise-within-your-company-casey-winters-eventbrite/

\u2022 Thinking beyond frameworks | Casey Winters (Pinterest, Eventbrite, Airbnb, Tinder, Canva, Reddit, Grubhub): https://www.lennyspodcast.com/thinking-beyond-frameworks-casey-winters-pinterest-eventbrite-airbnb-tinder-canva-reddit-grubhub/

\u2022 Shared services model: https://www.gartner.com/en/finance/insights/shared-services-model

\u2022 Shintaro Matsui on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/smatsui/

\u2022 Tableau: https://www.tableau.com/

\u2022 Jen Cardello on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/jencardello/

\u2022 Tim Davenport on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/tim-davenport-28249b9/

\u2022 Traffic: Genius, Rivalry, and Delusion in the Billion-Dollar Race to Go Viral: https://www.amazon.com/Traffic-Genius-Rivalry-Delusion-Billion-Dollar/dp/0593299752

\u2022 The Art of Action: https://www.amazon.com/Art-Action-10th-Anniversary/dp/1529376963

\u2022 Continuous Discovery Habits: Discover Products that Create Customer Value and Business Value: https://www.amazon.com/Continuous-Discovery-Habits-Discover-Products/dp/1736633309

\u2022 Deutschland89 on Hulu: https://www.hulu.com/series/deutschland-89-a4cf05f7-b4f2-44c7-84a1-4034671944b9

\u2022 The Fall of the House of Usher on Netflix: https://www.netflix.com/title/81414665

\u2022 Love Is Blind on Netflix: https://www.netflix.com/title/80996601

\u2022 The Haunting of Hill House on Netflix: https://www.netflix.com/title/80189221

\u2022 Dragonboat: https://dragonboat.io/solution/product-operations/

\u2022 Vistaly: https://www.vistaly.com/

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Production and marketing by https://penname.co/. For inquiries about sponsoring the podcast, email podcast@lennyrachitsky.com.

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Lenny may be an investor in the companies discussed.