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Matt Dixon is one of the world\u2019s foremost experts in sales and the author of The Challenger Sale, which sold over a million copies worldwide and was a #1 Amazon and Wall Street Journal bestseller. His most recent book, The JOLT Effect, focuses on overcoming customer indecision\u2014one of the biggest challenges to closing deals. Outside of writing, Matt co-founded DCM Insights, a boutique consultancy helping organizations understand customer behavior, and is a frequent contributor to the Harvard Business Review, with more than 20 print and online articles to his credit. In our conversation, we discuss:

\u2022 Why 40% to 60% of qualified sales opportunities are lost due to customer indecision

\u2022 Why dialing up FOMO doesn\u2019t work, and what to do instead

\u2022 The \u201cpings and echoes\u201d technique to catch issues early

\u2022 The JOLT method for overcoming indecision

\u2022 Key lessons from The Challenger Sale

\u2022 Practical examples of how to apply these principles to close more deals

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Find the transcript at: https://www.lennysnewsletter.com/p/close-more-deals-matt-dixon

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Where to find Matt Dixon:

\u2022 LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/matthewxdixon

\u2022 Website: https://www.jolteffect.com/

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Where to find Lenny:

\u2022 Newsletter: https://www.lennysnewsletter.com

\u2022 X: https://twitter.com/lennysan

\u2022 LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/lennyrachitsky/

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In this episode, we cover:

(00:00) Matt\u2019s background

(01:57) The research behind Matt\u2019s books

(06:08) Insights from The JOLT Effect

(10:15) FOMO vs. FOMU

(18:18) An example of selling software

(26:04) The JOLT method Step 1: Judge their level of indecision

(29:41) The \u201cpings and echoes\u201d technique

(34:49) Step 2: Offer a recommendation

(38:36) Step 3: Limit the exploration

(41:43) Step 4: Take risk off the table

(45:58) When to hit the pause button with a customer

(47:27) Insights from The Challenger Sale

(49:07) An example of a challenger sale

(55:23) Where to find Matt

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Referenced:

\u2022 A step-by-step guide to crafting a sales pitch that wins | April Dunford (author of Obviously Awesome and Sales Pitch): https://www.lennysnewsletter.com/p/a-step-by-step-guide-to-crafting

\u2022 The Challenger Sale: Taking Control of the Customer Conversation: https://www.amazon.com/Challenger-Sale-Control-Customer-Conversation/dp/0670922854

\u2022 The JOLT Effect: How High Performers Overcome Customer Indecision: https://www.amazon.com/JOLT-Effect-Performers-Overcome-Indecision/dp/0593538102

\u2022 Gartner acquires CEB: https://www.gartner.com/en/about/acquisitions/history/ceb-acquisition

\u2022 Tiger King on Netflix: https://www.netflix.com/title/81115994

\u2022 Why sourdough went viral: https://www.economist.com/1843/2020/08/04/why-sourdough-went-viral

\u2022 Neil Rackham: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Neil_Rackham

\u2022 Status quo bias in decision-making: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Status_quo_bias

\u2022 Omission bias: https://thedecisionlab.com/biases/omission-bias

\u2022 Gartner Magic Quadrant & Critical Capabilities: https://www.gartner.com/en/research/magic-quadrant

\u2022 Dunning-Kruger effect: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dunning%E2%80%93Kruger_effect

\u2022 Stop Losing Sales to Customer Indecision: https://hbr.org/2022/06/stop-losing-sales-to-customer-indecision

\u2022 Dentsply Sirona: https://www.dentsplysirona.com/

\u2022 \u201cWe happy?\u201d Briefcase scene from Tarantino\u2019s Pulp Fiction: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FGchDuOpbhE

\u2022 Nupro Freedom Cordless Prophy System: https://www.dentsplysirona.com/en-us/discover/discover-by-category/preventive/hygiene-handpieces.html

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Production and marketing by https://penname.co/. For inquiries about sponsoring the podcast, email podcast@lennyrachitsky.com.

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Lenny may be an investor in the companies discussed.