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Wes Kao has worked with Seth Godin (where she co-founded the altMBA and served as executive director), David Perell on his Write of Passage course, Professor Scott Galloway on Section4, and Morning Brew. Currently, she\u2019s the co-founder of Maven, a cohort-based learning platform where I taught my own course. Wes is passionate about telling stories that stay true to the creator\u2019s intentions while keeping your audience listening. In today\u2019s episode, you will learn how to use state changes to keep your audience engaged, how to communicate more clearly by focusing on the how more than the why, how to manage up for success, and how to communicate your priorities to set a boundary.

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Find the full transcript here: https://www.lennyspodcast.com/persuasive-communication-and-managing-up-wes-kao-maven-seth-godin-section4/#transcription

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Where to find Wes Kao:

\u2022 Website: https://www.weskao.com/

\u2022 Twitter: https://twitter.com/wes_kao

\u2022 LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/weskao/

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Where to find Lenny:

\u2022 Newsletter: https://www.lennysnewsletter.com

\u2022 Twitter: https://twitter.com/lennysan

\u2022 LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/lennyrachitsky/

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Thank you to our wonderful sponsors for making this episode possible:

\u2022 Modern Treasury: https://www.moderntreasury.com/

\u2022 Berbix: https://www.berbix.com/start

\u2022 Makelog: https://www.makelog.com/lenny

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Referenced:

\u2022 The Super Specific How: How to make your cohort-based course more rigorous: https://www.weskao.com/blog/super-specific-how

\u2022 It Was the Best of Sentences, It Was the Worst of Sentences: A Writer\u2019s Guide to Crafting Killer Sentences: https://www.amazon.com/Was-Best-Sentences-Worst-Crafting/dp/158008740X

\u2022 Guide to Better Business Writing (HBR Guide Series): https://www.amazon.com/HBR-Guide-Better-Business-Writing/dp/142218403X

\u2022 Seth Godin\u2019s blog: https://seths.blog/

\u2022 The Minto Pyramid Principle: Logic in Writing, Thinking, and Problem Solving: https://www.amazon.com/Minto-Pyramid-Principle-Writing-Thinking/dp/0960191038

\u2022 Doctor Foster: https://www.amazon.com/Doctor-Foster/dp/B01DT0WQ2C

\u2022 Suzy Batiz: https://www.suzybatiz.com/

\u2022 Amanda Natividad\u2019s Marketing 201 course: https://maven.com/amandanat/content-marketing

\u2022 Dr. Marily Nika\u2019s course:\xa0 https://maven.com/marily-nika/technical-product-management

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In this episode, we cover:

[03:39] Wes\u2019s early career

[07:08] How to land a job with Seth Godin

[09:56] What makes Seth Godin stand apart

[14:50] Wes\u2019s framework for better writing: the super-specific how

[18:08] Writing and teaching without the BS

[21:45] State changes: how to keep your audience engaged when teaching

[25:51] The data of \u201ceyes light up\u201d moments

[29:27] What managing up can do for you

[32:51] How to manage up effectively

[34:17] Lenny\u2019s template for proactive communication

[36:19] The skills you need to communicate clearly through writing

[43:50] How to protect your bandwidth (without having to say no to your boss)

[47:32] How Lenny sets priorities and communicates them

[48:24] Lightning round!

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Production and marketing:\xa0https://penname.co/