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Andrew Bosworth\u2014or Boz, as most people know him\u2014is the chief technology officer at Meta and head of Reality Labs, the company\u2019s augmented reality/virtual reality (AR/VR) organization, which he created in 2017. Boz joined Facebook in 2006 as their approximately 10th engineer, and in his 18-year tenure he built the original News Feed, Messenger, and Groups, as well as many early anti-abuse and infrastructure systems. At various times he has been the engineering director overseeing Events, Places, Photos, Videos, Timeline, Privacy, and more. Before Reality Labs, he ran the Ads and Business Platform product group, where he led engineering, product, research, analytics, and design, taking annual revenue from $4 billion to $40 billion in five years. Andrew currently leads Meta\u2019s efforts in AR, VR, AI, and consumer hardware across Quest, Ray-Ban Meta glasses, and more. In our conversation, we discuss:

\u2022 Stories from the early days of Facebook

\u2022 Lessons from Meta\u2019s downturn and recent turnaround

\u2022 Meta\u2019s culture of transparency

\u2022 Boz\u2019s thoughts on the Apple Vision Pro

\u2022 Why communication is the job

\u2022 Why you should regularly seek help from your manager

\u2022 Lessons in setting incentives and avoiding their misuse

\u2022 Why you should optimize for a variety in experience in your career

\u2022 The importance of trusting your own expertise and not being swayed by external opinions

\u2022 Stories of failures and personal growth

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Find the full transcript at: https://www.lennysnewsletter.com/p/making-meta-andrew-boz-bosworth-cto

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Where to find Andrew Bosworth:

\u2022 Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/boz/

\u2022 Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/boztank/

\u2022 X: https://twitter.com/boztank

\u2022 LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/andrew-bosworth-8247a01/

\u2022 Website: https://boz.com/

\u2022 Photography website: https://wardenshortbow.com/

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Where to find Lenny:

\u2022 Newsletter: https://www.lennysnewsletter.com

\u2022 X: https://twitter.com/lennysan

\u2022 LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/lennyrachitsky/

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In this episode, we cover:

(00:00) Boz\u2019s background

(04:48) Fun facts about him

(07:20) Early days at Facebook

(11:11) Advice for founders

(13:22) Leveraging leaders

(19:27) Tips for communicating with managers

(22:10) Transparency at Meta

(27:01) The importance of clear guidelines

(29:11) Involvement in the details

(33:15) Building the News Feed

(37:28) Passion and career growth

(40:25) Exploring new opportunities

(42:02) The value of variety in experience

(45:01) Giving and receiving feedback

(47:38) Boz\u2019s tattoos

(51:30) Communication is the job

(01:00:47) Comparing VR headsets: Meta Quest 3 and Apple Vision Pro

(01:10:41) Meta\u2019s downturn and turnaround

(01:16:10) Navigating org changes

(01:20:43) Lessons from failure

(01:26:33) Closing thoughts

(01:29:57) Lightning round

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Referenced:

\u2022 Reality Labs: https://about.meta.com/realitylabs/

\u2022 Quest: https://www.meta.com/quest/

\u2022 Ray-Ban Meta smart glasses: https://www.ray-ban.com/usa/ray-ban-meta-smart-glasses

\u2022 Taekwondo: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Taekwondo

\u2022 4-H: https://4-h.org/

\u2022 David Copperfield\u2019s website: https://www.davidcopperfield.com/html/

\u2022 MC Hammer on Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/mchammer/

\u2022 George W. Bush: https://www.whitehouse.gov/about-the-white-house/presidents/george-w-bush/

\u2022 Fry\u2019s Electronics: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fry%27s_Electronics

\u2022 Association for Computing Machinery: https://www.acm.org

\u2022 Get It Done: https://boz.com/articles/get-it-done

\u2022 Patrick Stewart on X: https://twitter.com/sirpatstew

\u2022 The FB Exec Practice That Changed the Way I Lead (about HPMs): https://livingos.substack.com/p/fb-exec-hpm

\u2022 Mark Zuckerberg on Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/zuck

\u2022 Chris Cox on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/chris-cox-2896b841/

\u2022 Javier Olivan on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/javierolivan/

\u2022 Brian Chesky\u2019s new playbook: https://www.lennyspodcast.com/brian-cheskys-new-playbook/

\u2022 Eye of Sauron: https://lotr.fandom.com/wiki/Eye_of_Sauron

\u2022 Ruchi Sanghvi on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/rsanghvi/

\u2022 Eric Schmidt on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/eric-e-schmidt/

\u2022 Sheryl Sandberg on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/sheryl-sandberg-5126652/

\u2022 Best Advice Sheryl Sandberg Received: If Offered a Seat on Rocket Ship, Get On: https://news.yahoo.com/blogs/newsmakers/best-advice-sheryl-sandberg-received-don-t-idiot-161459450.html

\u2022 Veritas: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Veritas

\u2022 Communication is The Job: https://boz.com/articles/communication-is-the-job

\u2022 Repetition does not spoil the prayer: https://www.linkedin.com/pulse/repetition-does-spoil-prayer-constantine-constantinides-m-d-ph-d--1f/

\u2022 Janet Lansbury\u2019s website: https://www.janetlansbury.com/

\u2022 Dr. Becky on Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/drbeckyatgoodinside

\u2022 Boz to the Future Episode 18: The Future According to Matthew Ball: https://www.meta.com/blog/quest/boz-to-the-future-episode-18-matthew-ball-metaverse-epyllion/

\u2022 Apple Vision Pro: https://www.apple.com/apple-vision-pro

\u2022 Quest 3 headset: https://www.meta.com/quest/quest-3/

\u2022 Virtual desktop: https://www.meta.com/experiences/2017050365004772/

\u2022 Meta Horizon Workrooms: https://www.meta.com/experiences/2514011888645651/\xa0

\u2022 After trying the Vision Pro, Mark Zuckerberg says Quest 3 \u2018is the better product, period\u2019: https://www.theverge.com/2024/2/13/24072413/mark-zuckerberg-apple-vision-pro-review-quest-3

\u2022 Lou Holtz on X: https://twitter.com/CoachLouHoltz88

\u2022 Gell-Mann amnesia effect: https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/Gell-Mann_Amnesia_effect

\u2022 \u201cWet streets cause rain\u201d: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=19026568

\u2022 Michael Crichton on X: https://twitter.com/CrichtonBooks

\u2022 AI research at Meta: https://ai.meta.com/research/

\u2022 Llama 2: https://llama.meta.com/

\u2022 Warren Buffett quote: https://www.brainyquote.com/quotes/warren_buffett_383933

\u2022 Mark Slee on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/mcslee/

\u2022 Dave Fetterman on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/davefetterman/

\u2022 Emacs and Vim: https://dev.to/george_udonte/emacs-and-vim-an-overview-for-beginners-2e65

\u2022 Ami Vora on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/amvora/

\u2022 The Dream Machine: https://www.amazon.com/Dream-Machine-M-Mitchell-Waldrop/dp/1732265119

\u2022 Alan Turing: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alan_Turing

\u2022 Good Inside: A Guide to Becoming the Parent You Want to Be: https://www.amazon.com/Good-Inside-Guide-Becoming-Parent/dp/B09Y4WG7RJ

\u2022 Dr. Becky\u2019s website: https://www.goodinside.com/

\u2022 The Mandalorian on Disney+: https://www.disneyplus.com/series/the-mandalorian/3jLIGMDYINqD

\u2022 Scott Trowbridge on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/scott-trowbridge-b70866/

\u2022 Dave Filoni on X:\xa0 https://twitter.com/dave_filoni

\u2022 Jon Favreau on X: https://twitter.com/jon_favreau

\u2022 Mercedes-Benz AMG EQS Sedan: https://www.mbusa.com/en/vehicles/model/eqs/sedan/amgeqsv4

\u2022 Tracey Emin \u201cTrust Yourself\u201d: https://www.artsy.net/artwork/tracey-emin-trust-yourself

\u2022 Tracey Emin on Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/traceyeminstudio

\u2022 Rick Rubin: Protocols to Access Creative Energy and Process | Huberman Lab Podcast: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GpgqXCkRO-w

\u2022 Ansel Adams: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ansel_Adams

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Production and marketing by https://penname.co/. For inquiries about sponsoring the podcast, email podcast@lennyrachitsky.com.

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Lenny may be an investor in the companies discussed.