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Carole Robin spent over 20 years teaching the Stanford Graduate School of Business course Interpersonal Dynamics, affectionately known as \u201cTouchy Feely.\u201d After leaving Stanford, she founded a nonprofit called Leaders in Tech, which applies the Touchy Feely principles to help Silicon Valley executives build their leadership and interpersonal skills. Carole co-authored the popular book Connect: Building Exceptional Relationships with Family, Friends, and Colleagues, which shares key insights from her decades of teaching these courses. In our conversation, we discuss:

\u2022 The benefits of building robust relationships, in life and work

\u2022 The 15% rule, and how it will help you build better relationships

\u2022 The power of vulnerability

\u2022 Examples of how to practice vulnerability

\u2022 Why mental models you build early in life hold you back later

\u2022 The \u201cthree realities\u201d and \u201cthe net\u201d

\u2022 The art of inquiry

\u2022 Practical tips for avoiding defensiveness when getting feedback

\u2022 The impact of long Covid on Carole\u2019s life

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Brought to you by:

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\u2022 CommandBar\u2014AI-powered user assistance for modern products and impatient users

\u2022 The a16z Podcast\u2014Featuring conversations with the founders and technologists shaping our future

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Find the transcript at: https://www.lennysnewsletter.com/p/build-robust-relationships-carole-robin

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Where to find Carole Robin:

\u2022 LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/carole-robin/

\u2022 Email: carolerobinllc@gmail.com

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Where to find Lenny:

\u2022 Newsletter: https://www.lennysnewsletter.com

\u2022 X: https://twitter.com/lennysan

\u2022 LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/lennyrachitsky/

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In this episode, we cover:

(00:00) Carole\u2019s background

(05:17) The importance of building robust relationships

(10:20) The \u201cTouchy Feely\u201d course at Stanford

(13:29) An example of the in-class experience

(17:19) Leaders in Tech: developing interpersonal competence

(21:36) Progressive disclosure and the 15% rule

(24:28) Appropriate disclosure

(26:52) The power of vulnerability

(34:57) Admitting mistakes and sharing feelings

(37:08) Understanding mental models

(42:57) The \u201cthree realities\u201d framework

(53:52) The power of feedback and personal change

(58:47) The art of inquiry

(01:03:27) How to get better at giving feedback

(01:07:47) Exercises and continued learning

(01:10:49) \u201cAdvice hinders relationships\u201d

(01:16:49) Failure corner: AFOG

(01:20:30) Takeaways

(01:21:51) Lessons from long Covid

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Referenced:

\u2022 How to Build Better Relationships: https://www.gsb.stanford.edu/insights/how-build-better-relationships

\u2022 Connect: Building Exceptional Relationships with Family, Friends, and Colleagues: https://www.amazon.com/Connect-Building-Exceptional-Relationships-Colleagues-ebook/dp/B0894279WZ

\u2022 Leaders in Tech: https://leadersintech.org/

\u2022 Leaders in Tech Fellows: https://leadersintech.org/learnaboutfellows

\u2022 Steve Jobs: https://www.forbes.com/profile/steve-jobs/

\u2022 Sheryl Sandberg on X: https://twitter.com/sherylsandberg

\u2022 Ursula Burns: https://www.forbes.com/profile/ursula-burns/

\u2022 Application for Leaders in Tech: https://leadersintech.org/programs-and-applications

\u2022 Vygotsky\u2019s Zone of Proximal Development and Scaffolding Theory: https://www.simplypsychology.org/zone-of-proximal-development.html

\u2022 The Best Leaders Aren\u2019t Afraid to Be Vulnerable: https://hbr.org/2022/07/the-best-leaders-arent-afraid-of-being-vulnerable

\u2022 The Surprising Benefits of Admitting Mistakes: 5 Ways to Build Intellectual Humility: https://www.forbes.com/sites/tracybrower/2021/12/29/the-surprising-benefits-of-admitting-mistakes-5-ways-to-build-intellectual-humility/

\u2022 How to Build Conflict Skills\u2014The Pinch/Crunch Model: https://www.forbes.com/sites/hannahart/2023/12/15/how-to-build-conflict-skills-the-pinchcrunch-model/

\u2022 Slides mentioned (The Three Realities Framework | The 15% Rule | Feedback Guidelines): https://www.notion.so/pen-name/Carole-Robin-on-Lenny-s-Podcast-dc7159208e4242428f4b11ebc92285eb

\u2022 Mindset: The New Psychology of Success: https://www.amazon.com/Mindset-Psychology-Carol-S-Dweck/dp/0345472322

\u2022 Management Time: Who\u2019s Got the Monkey?: https://hbr.org/1999/11/management-time-whos-got-the-monkey

\u2022 Long COVID: major findings, mechanisms and recommendations: https://www.nature.com/articles/s41579-022-00846-2

\u2022 Leadership, acceptance, and self-management: my journey with long COVID: https://www.linkedin.com/pulse/leadership-acceptance-self-management-my-journey-long-carole-robin/

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Production and marketing by https://penname.co/. For inquiries about sponsoring the podcast, email podcast@lennyrachitsky.com.

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Lenny may be an investor in the companies discussed.