Some pundits say capitalism can never recover from Covid-19, and there will need to be bigger government. Others say the future economic recovery rests with the business sector. Guests: Adam Tooze Historian of economic crises Professor of History and Director of the European Institute at Columbia University Rana Foroohar Global economic analyst with CNN, and global business columnist with The Financial Times Percy Allan Economist, and former Secretary of NSW Treasury Public sector advisor Professor at the Institute of Public Policy and Management, UTS and The global pandemic has been revealing in many ways in how people, countries and governments manage the situation. But what is it saying about the two major superpowers, the US and China? And where does that leave Australia, a question which has been on the minds of foreign policy experts for some time; now many of them feel its time has come. Guests: John Prideux, US editor The Economist and host of the podcast, Checks and Balance. Richard McGregor, senior fellow at the Lowy Institute, author of numerous books on East Asia, his latest is Xi Jinping; The Backlash Allan Gyngell, National president of the Australian Institute of International Affairs and host of podcast Australia in the World.