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In this Shane Hastie, Lead Editor for Culture & Methods, spoke to Phil Abernathy about his work helping organisations focus on employee happiness to drive customer happiness and shareholder return and the Bureaucracy Mass Index as a tool to identify where companies are bloated and ineffective. He also spoke about what\u2019s needed for real transformation.\n\nWhy listen to this podcast:\n\n\u2022\tGreat companies are realising that in order to attract great talent you have to have a great place to work \n\u2022\tIf you have complex systems and complex processes, the root cause will be complex structures\n\u2022\tThe organisational BMI \u2013 the Bureaucracy Mass Index, the proportion of enablers to doers. A healthy BMI is around 10%, whereas in many organisations it gets to be as high as 40%\n\u2022\tHaving clear objectives that are visible to the while organisation enables good decision making; Objectives and Key Results are one tool to achieve this\n\u2022\tOrganization transformation must include mindset and culture as well as structure and roles\n\nMore on this: Quick scan our curated show notes on InfoQ https://bit.ly/2XhBYCO\nYou can also subscribe to the InfoQ newsletter to receive weekly updates on the hottest topics from professional software development. bit.ly/24x3IVq\n\nSubscribe: www.youtube.com/infoq\nLike InfoQ on Facebook: bit.ly/2jmlyG8\nFollow on Twitter: twitter.com/InfoQ\nFollow on LinkedIn: www.linkedin.com/company/infoq\nCheck the landing page on InfoQ: https://bit.ly/2XhBYCO