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Published: Dec. 13, 2023, 3 p.m.

Great time with the hosts of 1st Lead U Podcast - John Ballinger and Douglas Ford! Leadership in politics - why do we keep voting for the same failed leaders? Managing vs. Leadership! Podcasting! What we put on our business cards! Leadership in churches and families! MUCH MORE!

\nFind out more about them and the podcast:\nwww.1stleadu.com\nPlease consider supporting the podast by becoming a Patron: https://www.patreon.com/duringthebreakpodcast\n

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