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In one of the most interesting conversations we've ever had on the podcast, Forrest is joined by clinical psychologist Dr. Jacob Ham to explore what really helps people work with - and be with - trauma. They begin with Dr. Ham's background and what drew him to trauma work before Forrest asks him how he "conceptualizes" different kinds of traumatic experiences. Dr. Ham then takes them away from the conceptual, and toward the felt.\xa0\nThey talk about cultivating a felt sense of connection, empathy as a way in to relationship, and the value of anger. Dr. Ham shares about his own process taking risks as a clinician, using parts work, moving away from the "false idol" of cognizing, and finding a unique way in for each individual.\nAbout our Guest: Dr. Jacob Ham is a clinical psychologist, Associate Clinical Professor of Psychiatry at Mount Sinai, and the Director of the Center for Complex Trauma. He was the therapist former podcast guest Stephanie Foo wrote about in her wonderful book What My Bones Know.\nYou can watch this episode on YouTube.\nKey Topics:\n0:00: Introduction\n2:30: Jacob\u2019s background\n5:20: Cultivating a felt sense of connection vs. idolizing the concept of trauma\n11:00: A monastic, medical, and artistic approach\n13:00: Knowing our intentions, and feeling others\u2019 pain as a therapist\n18:00: Surrendering to overwhelming grief\n23:50: Love, vulnerability, and authenticity\n29:45: The value of anger, the energy it demands, and navigating it with humility\n34:45: Presence, and taking risks as a clinician\n40:40: How Jacob does parts work, and finding what works with each individual\n46:15: Staring at the finger that\u2019s pointing at the moon\n49:25: Does a good therapist need to have experienced trauma?\n52:30: Honoring our inner protectors, surrendering to pain, and knowing it won\u2019t last forever\n56:20: Shaping others\u2019 ability to help you, and processing trauma without professional help\n1:00:15: Tipping points and surrender\n1:04:15: Recap\nSupport the Podcast: We're now on Patreon! If you'd like to support the podcast, follow this link.\nSponsors:\nStart speaking a new language in just 3 weeks with Babbel! Get 55% off at Babbel.com/BEING.\nZocdoc helps you find expert doctors and medical professionals that specialize in the care you need, and deliver the type of experience you want. Head to zocdoc.com/being and download the Zocdoc app for FREE.\nFactor delivers fresh, never-frozen, fully prepared meals right to your door. Head to factormeals.com/beingwell50 and use code beingwell50 to get 50% off.\xa0\nJoin over a million people using BetterHelp, the world\u2019s largest online counseling platform. Visit betterhelp.com/beingwell for 10% off your first month!\nWant to sleep better? Try the Calm app! Visit calm.com/beingwell for 40% off a premium subscription.\nFinally get that project off the ground with Squarespace! Head to squarespace.com/beingwell for a free trial, and when you\u2019re ready to launch use coupon code BEINGWELL to save 10% off your first purchase of a website or domain.\nConnect with the show:\n\nSubscribe on iTunes\n\nFollow Forrest on YouTube\n\nFollow us on Instagram\n\nFollow Forrest on Instagram\n\nFollow Rick on Facebook\n\nFollow Forrest on Facebook\n\nVisit Forrest's website