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Putting I at the centre, the Ich, was the creed of philosopher Johann Gottlieb Fichte whilst Friedrich Schelling, saw the self as at one with the rest of nature: naturphilosophie. These competing ideas were debated in literary salons in the German town of Jena in the 1790s and Andrea Wulf's new biography Magnificent Rebels: The First Romantics and the Invention of the Self tells this story. She joins Anne McElvoy alongside New Generation Thinker Dr Se\xe1n Williams and the musicologist and Classical music biographer, Stephen Walsh, author of The Beloved Vision: Music in the Romantic Age.

Producer: Ruth Watts

This edition features discussion of music inspired by the Jena writers and extracts of:

Franz Schubert, \u201cGretchen am Spinnrade\u201d sung by Bernarda Fink (soprano) with Gerold Huber (piano), Harmonia Mundi, HMC901991

Weber, Der Freisch\xfctz, Rundfunkchor Leipzig, Staatskapelle Dresden, Carlos Kleiber\nDeutsche Grammophon, 4577362

You can find other programmes exploring German culture and thinking in the Free Thinking archives and available to download as Arts & Ideas podcasts including\nETA Hoffmann https://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/m00188r7\nRainer Maria Rilke https://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/m0016k0v\nWittgenstein's Tractatus https://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/m000wcwk\nThe 1920s Philosophy's Golden Age https://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/m000q380\nThe Tin Drum https://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/b05stw9v\nThomas Mann https://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/m001025h