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A few weeks ago while I was teaching a CSM class, I got a Slack message from Ron Quartel pointing me to a tweet by Ryan Ripley. The tweet said \u201cIf you are sitting in a Scrum Training class and the trainer starts teaching Story Points, you should 1. Get up. 2. Demand Your Money Back, and 3. Walk out. You're wasting your time. \n\nHere is a link to the tweet: https://bit.ly/3XsfPAP\n\nI should mention I was just about to cover Story Points and I used Ryan's tweet in class as part of our conversation.\n\nAs soon as I saw Ryan's tweet, I DM'd him asking if we could do a podcast about it. I did this because A) I have a lot of respect for Ryan and value his opinion, B) earlier in my career I spent about 4 years fighting against Story Points, C) I do teach them in class because I believe that (used properly) they can be incredibly valuable to a Scrum Team, and D) I love getting into debates on topics I feel strongly about with really smart people who might be able to change my mind\n\nSo this podcast is Ryan and I talking through his reason for throwing shade on Story Points, my reasons for standing up for them, and the reasons I feel comfortable saying that we are aligned about why Story Points are good AND evil.\n\nThis podcast was originally recorded in video. If you'd prefer that version you can find it here: https://youtu.be/-ja1oFv5Et0\n\nContacting Ryan:\nWeb: https://AgileforHumans.com\nYouTube: https://www.youtube.com/@AgileforHumans\nFixing Your Scrum by Ryan Ripley and Todd Miller: https://amzn.to/3Qyjs5S\nLinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/ryanripley/