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One of the great benefits I have had through volunteering for the Scrum Alliance has been the opportunity to work with a long list of inspiring and brilliant people. At the top of that list is Jukka Lindstrom. Jukka is someone who\u2019s approach to exploring and solving problems is so different from my own that I felt like every time we collaborated on something, I got better at what I was doing just by working with him. A few years ago Jukka left his job as an Agile Coach and Trainer and started working full time with traditional organizations. At the start of 2016 he joined Cargotec to head up their Digital Transformation effort. If you think Agile Transition is hard, consider that it is only a small part of the transformation of digitizing a global organization with 11,000 people who are used to working in an analog world. \n\nIn the first part of the interview Jukka and I talk about the work he\u2019s been doing since leaving Reaktor and what it\u2019s like trying to transform a company of 11,000 people to not just Agile, but a digitized way of working as well. Leaving the Agile Consulting world to go back into a traditional environment is a brave choice, but for Jukka, it presented an opportunity to test out what he had learned and see if he could help. While it has provided him with great learning experiences, it has also come with some tough moments. In the second part of the interview we focus on how what that career transition has been like and how he has avoided getting trapped in the doldrums when he is faced with working in a more traditional environment. \n\nShow Notes\n\n00:09 Interview Begins\n00:57 Jukka\u2019s role at Cargotec and what the company does\n02:37 The difference between Agile Transformation and Digital Transformation\n07:36 The complexity of transformation at Cargotec\n08:44 Why is this level of transformation so much harder than basic Agile transformation\n10:10 The mindset shift\n11:54 Placing a bet on technology when you don\u2019t know exactly what you\u2019ll be able to do with the result yet\n13:00 transforming11,000 people \u2026 \u201cthat\u2019s like 1,200-1,500 teams of people\u201d\n15:00 Where do you learn faster? Working in software or more traditional (manufacturing) companies\n17:15 Becoming an Agile Bodhisattva\n17:52 When you walk back into the waterfall, doesn\u2019t it kinda suck? And how do you stay inspired?\n19:45 Realizing that the reason you feel stuck is because you aren\u2019t being true to yourself\n22:37 How to avoid playing the victim and taking ownership of your own learning and joy\n24:30 \u201cI\u2019m not having fun\u2026 why am I doing this?\u201d\n25:27 If you can\u2019t find fun in what you\u2019re doing, you\u2019re doing the wrong thing\n25:55 Things Jukka does outside of work that helps him stay engaged and learning while he is at work\n27:00 MIT\u2019s ULab\n\n\nLinks from the Interview\nCargotec Website: http://www.cargotec.com\nSingapore Cargo Port Timelapse Video https://youtu.be/HrZg96L8yaY\nMIT\u2019s ULab Course https://www.edx.org/course/u-lab-leading-emerging-future-mitx-15-671-1x\nLeading from the Emerging Future by Otto Scharmer http://amzn.to/2dJJ1TL\nReaktor https://reaktor.com\n\nIf you\u2019d like to contact Jukka\nLinkedIn https://www.linkedin.com/in/jukkalindstrom\nTwitter https://twitter.com/jukka_lindstrom