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#408: When Kiersten and Julian Saunders began dating in 2012, they fell in love quickly, and their relationship felt strong \u2013 until they started talking about money.\nThey broke up as a result of their first money conversation.\nLuckily, they got back together, figured out how to have tough conversations, and paid off $200,000 in debt over the next five years.\nThen they started thinking about how to hack their careers. They came up with a plan for a 15-year career.\nToday, they join us on the podcast to talk about the 15-year career framework and how to approach your career - and your finances - in 5 year stints.\n\nTiming of discussion points as per October 2022:\n00:25: Introduction to Kiersten and Julien Saunders\n02:05: The money conversation that changed everything\n11:25: Examples of interaction patterns around money discussions\n12:08: Tactics to continue difficult money conversations\n16:18: Starting a 15-year career\n17:48: The focus of the first five years: your financial foundation\n18:17: Transitioning to the second five years and defining your super power at work\n18:50: Building your exit plan in the last five years\n22:57: Thinking about side hustles and the factors of urgency and\xa0upside\n24:29: How does a person know how to make money\n29:28: Maintaining momentum towards your goals over the 15 year time span\n31:37: Is it possible to accelerate the 15 year timeline?\n35:12: Thinking about risk after your career\nLearn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices