BROADCASTS.com

b'

Jacqui Ford: Welcome to Your Best Defense Podcast. My name is Jacqui Ford, and I\\u2019m excited to be here with you today. We\\u2019re going to be talking about federal criminal defense and what it means to be charged in federal court, the processes\\u2014how they\\u2019re different from state court\\u2014and why it\\u2019s important that, if you\\u2019re being investigated for a federal crime, have committed a federal crime, or are charged with a federal crime, you need to find the best Oklahoma City Federal Defense Lawyer you can find. I\\u2019m excited today\\u2014we have with us my friend and colleague, Mr. Jack Dempsey Pointer. Mr. Pointer has been practicing criminal defense for well over 40 years in the state of Oklahoma. His practice is primarily in the federal courthouse. Jack, thanks for being with us today.

\\xa0

JDP: Thank you very much. I did not bring my chisel so I could show you how I wrote Hammurabi\\u2019s Code. Ms. Ford and I have embarked on a journey in federal court that very few people have admitted to that privilege. Of course, she\\u2019s a tremendous trial lawyer in Oklahoma City\\u2014and civil, in the state court. But in federal court, I felt like she needed a little more experience, and that\\u2019s why I have kind of taken her under my rather exhaustive wings.

\\xa0

JF: And, for that, I could never be grateful enough, Jack. Thank you.

\\xa0

JDP: You\\u2019re quite welcome. Believe me, you\\u2019re going to be paying the price. Ms. Ford approached me about talking about federal criminal defense in Oklahoma City. It\\u2019s something that I know something about. As she said, for 45 years, I\\u2019ve been doing this. That takes it back to probably when most of the people listening to this\\u2019s parents were still in at least junior high school. To start off with, federal criminal defense by Ms. Ford and myself in Oklahoma City is a very unique area. In fact, you\\u2019re not going to be able to go to the phone book and say \\u201cFederal Criminal Defense.\\u201d It\\u2019s not going to bring up anybody who has any experience. On the Internet, it\\u2019s a little bit of a different deal. A lot of people pay for that privilege, but Ms. Ford as a federal criminal defense attorney has taken this method, which I\\u2019m highly impressed with. Let\\u2019s start about how Ms. Ford and I approach a case. Indicted in federal criminal court in Oklahoma City.

\\xa0

JF: What does it mean to be indicted in federal criminal court, Jack?

\\xa0

JDP: The federal government, in criminal cases, does them one of two ways. One is a complaint. A complaint is just a written document supported by an affidavit from one of the alphabet agencies. One of the Is\\u2014IRS, ATF, DEA\\u2014and secret service does not go by SS. They find someone or it has been reported to them that a crime has been committed under federal jurisdiction, and you have to remember that federal jurisdiction is limited. For instance, in civil cases, in federal jurisdictions all over the country, there\\u2019s a minimum of $75,000\\u2014the amount has to be $75,000 in controversy\\u2014or a constitutional issue. If it\\u2019s not $75,000, then it goes to the state court. The federal courts are courts of limited jurisdiction, and they are presided over by what we call Article 3 judges that are set forth in the Constitution. Article 3 judges are district court judges that are appointed by the President of the United States, and they serve for life. There\\u2019s no elections, no votes of confidence; they\\u2019re actually in there for life. Federal judges\\u2014there are three judges in Oklahoma, the northern district, which takes in Tulsa; the eastern district, which is surrounded by Muskogee; and then the western district, which roughly is from west of I-35 south to the Texas border and north to the Kansas border. It\\u2019s one of the largest districts in the United States. There are 93 federal districts in the United States. All of them have district judges in varying amounts. There are also 93 United States Attorneys. Those individuals are political appointees. You may remember a case when there was recently an election. The President took office and immediately sent out 93 faxes to the people who had been appointed under the prior administration: \\u201cThank you for your service. It\\u2019s no longer needed.\\u201c

\\xa0

JF: So they worked at the will of the President, and whatever that administration\\u2019s agenda might be is strongly influenced by what their US Attorneys and all of the different districts are motivated by. Is that right?

\\xa0

JDP: Yes. For instance, here in Oklahoma City, we have a US Attorney, Mr. Sanford Coats. He has a staff of probably 35-50 US Attorneys. These people are highly experienced in federal criminal practice. There of course, is the civil section, but mainly it\\u2019s criminal that they handle. And these individuals are the ones responsible and directly connected to the alphabet agencies, and when you\\u2019re practicing federal criminal defense in Oklahoma City with Ms. Ford and I, you get an education on this pretty quick. One of the things you have to remember is\\u2014when I was talking about the limited jurisdiction of the federal government\\u2014we have interstate highways, which are nationally funded and built by states\\u2019 highways. (Little highways are enforced by Oklahoma State Troopers.) They could be enforced by the FBI, DEA, ATF\\u2014whomever\\u2014to go out there to write traffic tickets and whatever, but that\\u2019s a terrible waste of a very experienced resource. FBI agents don\\u2019t need to be writing traffic tickets is what I\\u2019m saying.

\\xa0

JF: So what do these alphabet agencies do? How do we find ourselves in the limited jurisdiction of the western district of Oklahoma\\u2014or any court in Oklahoma, Jack?

\\xa0

JDP: Let\\u2019s go to some examples. Federal banks that are federally insured by the FBI see if a teller, a bank officer, or someone like that commits a crime like laundering money or misincorporating it or misplacing it or misusing it, that is automatically reported by management to FBI, or secret service, IRS\\u2014it just depends on what it is.

\\xa0

JF: And we have some experience here, right? It\\u2019s not just you get caught and you pony up all the money like we\\u2019ve seen in the past, and so they don\\u2019t say anything\\u2014no harm, no foul. In fact, there\\u2019s not a \\u201cPay it back, and we won\\u2019t say anything\\u201d kind of deal, is there, Jack?

\\xa0

JDP: No, Ms. Ford and I\\u2019ve prosecuted a federal court case in Oklahoma City where the individual was caught, and he paid every dime\\u2014several hundred thousand dollars back immediately.

\\xa0

JF: Prior to the feds even knowing anything had even gone missing.

\\xa0

JDP: Nobody was involved. We were dealing with a civil lawyer on the money, okay? And we paid the check\\u2014and of course, attorneys and civil attorneys aren\\u2019t criminal attorneys. They can\\u2019t guarantee there won\\u2019t be prosecution. So we tried to nail him down and say we\\u2019re not going to tell anybody, and we were quickly informed that this instance must be reported to federal regulators.

\\xa0

JF: It was mandatory.

\\xa0

JDP: Yes, it\\u2019s absolutely. Or the person would get in trouble. So we had a situation where the next thing, we got a phone call from the lawyer for the FDIC in Dallas and we got a phone call from the FBI, and we began our merry journey through the federal defense system here in Oklahoma City, Ms. Ford and I did. Fortunately for the gentleman, he received one of the few sentences I have ever seen where probation was granted. That\\u2019s highly unusual. The federal sentencing guidelines and the federal law provide that there is no longer any parole in the federal system. If you get a 10-year sentence, you\\u2019re going to do eight-and-a-half years flat.

\\xa0

JF: Now, Jack, that doesn\\u2019t sound like easy time. It sounds a little different than state court, too. In state court, I can get a 10-year sentence, depending on the crime I committed, and let\\u2019s just say it\\u2019s a measly little white-collar crime, as people like to downplay white-collar crimes in this country. I might not serve all 10 of that in state court, but in federal court, with there being no \\u201cGood Time\\u201d credit and no parole, we\\u2019re serving every day.

\\xa0

JDP: The state court sentence you\\u2019re talking about is probably a deferred sentence and pay the money back and so-on-and-so-forth. The sentence you would receive in federal court is not only pay the money back, but under the sentencing guidelines, we have chart and we have a table. We compare how many points are added, and so-on-and-so-forth, and then you come up with a range of punishment. That range of punishment used to be mandatory, but now it\\u2019s advisory to the federal judges. However, the judges follow it pretty closely, but I can assure you, that if it\\u2019s embezzlement from a federally-insured institution, a federal agency, beating up a postal officer, you don\\u2019t like the SEC\\u2014all that kind of stuff\\u2014that\\u2019s all going to federal, and you\\u2019re going to do flat, hard time. We have three types of prisons on the federal system. There are the camps\\u2014the ones that are so notorious that everyone calls them \\u201cCamp Fed\\u201d\\u2014I believe you try to envision yourself that in 24-hours, they tell you to get up, to go to sleep, and you do what they say. You take a banker who has owned several banks who has to go out in the morning and has to milk cows. It\\u2019s not too easy for him. Then you have the federal correction institutions\\u2014FCI. (The camp and FCI in Oklahoma\\u2014we have one in El Reno.) It\\u2019s a federal camp, and it\\u2019s also a federal correction institution. The federal correctional institution is behind wire, not walls. It\\u2019s very difficult to get in and get out of. Of course, you hear of no escapes from there. The third type of institution is basically a prison, and that would be places like Leavenworth, Kansas. And Leavenworth, Kansas is very much like McAlester\\u2014it\\u2019s a very strict environment behind walls.

\\xa0

JF: So it\\u2019s not a place any one of our clients, future or current, want to find themselves.

\\xa0

JDP: No.

\\xa0

JF: This is not easy time. So, as criminal defense lawyers in Oklahoma, what do we do? What do we do to keep them from finding themselves in one of these three places?

\\xa0

JDP: Well, it\\u2019s like any other case except for it\\u2019s accelerated. You must understand that, under the federal system, they have something called the Speedy Trial Act, and the Speedy Trial Act basically says the first time you appear before a federal magistrate or judicial officer, a clock begins to run. And that clock is 70 days. At the end of that 70 days, we\\u2019re not talking about talking to get a jury\\u2014the judge is calling the jury. You\\u2019re getting ready to try this case.

\\xa0

JF: 70 days from indictment to jury trial.

\\xa0

JDP: From initial appearance to jury trial.