BROADCASTS.com

b'

JDP: Everybody says, \\u201cWhy does it take so long for the federal government to investigate things?\\u201d What you have to remember is these FBI agencies and all of these guys with the alphabet agencies have a specific US Attorney they are assigned to. A case begins with the US Attorney, and the federal agent has to sit down and say, \\u201cYou need this and this and this, and you need this and this and this. Go out and do this and this and this.\\u201d It just takes time. I\\u2019ve seen it take as long as 3-4 years. The investigations where they come in and catch a bank teller with a twenty-dollar bill in their hand\\u2014that\\u2019s the extent of the investigation? No. For instance, on the Oklahoma City side, an Oklahoma City police officer stops someone for speeding, writes a ticket, sees a joint. That investigation is over right then. And then you go to court and it may take 2-3 years to get conclusion. This is just the opposite. The feds will take their time investigating that person. This could be a larger embezzlement than just twenty dollars. They will go to the casinos and see if this person has a player\\u2019s card. They have a player\\u2019s card? How active were they? You will be shocked that people use those player\\u2019s cards like they\\u2019re crazy. There\\u2019s just a complete history of their gambling history.

\\xa0

JF: And they\\u2019re just giving their evidence over to the government. Here it is in a nice little bow.

\\xa0

JDP: That might as well go straight to the agent. So they continue their investigation and do all those kinds of things, because they have to make sure. They have to come up with an exact amount of money that is missing, and believe me, every dime, dollar, hundred-dollar bill that is missing or has been misplaced, whether this person did it or not, is all going to get thrown on that person. So they may make a twenty-dollar bill, and it may turn into several hundred thousand. You never know. Anyway, then they back it up because they have all of these gambling records, but she\\u2019s only making ten dollars an hour. That kind of thing.

\\xa0

JF: So the feds didn\\u2019t get their act together early on, they get their case ready to present and when they indict or when they charge by complaint, they\\u2019re ready to go.

\\xa0

JDP: A complaint is usually charged, as I say, supported by affidavit, but it\\u2019s when something immediate is happening. So a person may flee the jurisdiction, or they feel he is going to commit more harm\\u2014something like that. They bring these people into court with an affidavit, and they will be arraigned.\\xa0 It\\u2019s really a strange thing, when you go in front of a magistrate in any federal court in the United States\\u2014and that\\u2019s one nice thing about it\\u2014it\\u2019s very easy to practice in Kansas, Texas, Nebraska, Minnesota, and New York\\u2014it\\u2019s all the same rules and procedures.

\\xa0

JF: And, by golly, they hold you to hose rules unlike state court. Isn\\u2019t that right?

\\xa0

JDP: Yes, continuances have to be completely written with an accompanying order.

\\xa0

JF: And it doesn\\u2019t come with that Good Ole\\u2019 Boy system: \\u201cI know this judge, and we go golfing together, and I had lunch with his secretary.\\u201d There\\u2019s none of that favoritism. There\\u2019s none of that relationship building. I mean, the relationships are important, but when you\\u2019re in front of a federal court judge in Oklahoma City, you\\u2019re held to a level of standard of anybody else who would walk in that courtroom.

\\xa0

JDP: To give you an example of how powerful a federal judge is\\u2014we have examples right here in Oklahoma City. A federal judge took over the Oklahoma City school system, and he segregated. A federal judge right here in Oklahoma City took over the Oklahoma Department of Corrections and ran the corrections department. A federal judge in Tulsa took over the Department of Human Services\\u2014their foster care unit and so forth\\u2014and ran it. Now think about it. One man\\u2014

\\xa0

JF: Or woman.

\\xa0

JDP: Or woman\\u2014and, by god, we\\u2019ve got some good judges that are women, I might add\\u2014

\\xa0

JF: Yes, we do. They\\u2019ve taken me to school a couple of times.

\\xa0

JDP: Well, you know, it\\u2019s a long schooling process, I might add.

\\xa0

JF: Yes, it is, and that\\u2019s okay.

\\xa0

JDP: --one man or woman has the authority to affect the lives of hundreds of thousands of people, whether they are people being served by that state agency or whatever. And that\\u2019s an awful lot of responsibility and power to invoke in one person. That\\u2019s why they go through an extremely hard and difficult vetting process. And for the United States Senate, they say in Washington, it\\u2019s all about politics. I\\u2019m sorry, I want somebody that I know a little bit about who we\\u2019re going to be standing in front of in court, and I want to know a little bit about them.

\\xa0

JF: Absolutely.

\\xa0

JDP: Those Senate hearings are public, and it\\u2019s all printed and things of that nature. Once you\\u2019re arrested and you come in front of a magistrate\\u2014the comparable thing in state court of a magistrate is a special judge. A magistrate is hired for a specific term. We used to have a magistrate in Lawton, Enid, and several other places, but we don\\u2019t have them here anymore. However, we still have bankruptcy courts in Lawton, Enid, Oklahoma City, Tulsa, Muskogee\\u2014all over the state. Bankruptcy is another matter altogether. On a criminal level, you\\u2019re in front of the magistrate and the magistrate says, \\u201cOkay, I hereby find there is probably cause to have you arrested and to detain you.\\u201d A lot of people get caught in Oklahoma County, and they say, \\u201cWhat\\u2019s the jail bail? I\\u2019ll pay ten percent.\\u201d And they get out\\u2026

\\xa0

JF: All the bondsmen will help you get out of here.

\\xa0

JDP: Bondsmen don\\u2019t practice in federal court. Period. You get out on an O.R. or you don\\u2019t get out at all. And, if the government requests, they can ask for three days of detention.

\\xa0

JF: To get their ducks in a row.

\\xa0

JDP: Or to make a point. Because you know all of the jail calls are reported. And people like to talk.

\\xa0

JF: It\\u2019s the worst thing a criminal defense lawyer can ever do is pop open a discovery disc and hear, \\u201cThis is a phone call from the Grady County Jail. These phone calls are recorded. Please press 1 to continue.\\u201d And the next voice is often our client saying or doing something they shouldn\\u2019t be saying.

\\xa0

JDP: \\u201cI didn\\u2019t do that deal!\\u201d and I\\u2019m going. \\u201cThis is Jack Dempsey Pointer and Jacqueline Ford, and we have been on a conference call. This is an attorney-client conference, and it is therefore confidential. I had no choice but to speak to my client, other than to be forced to press button number one. I hereby revoke the right of the state to record my phone conversation. Do you agree, too, Mr. Jones?\\u201d \\u201cYes, I do.\\u201d

\\xa0

JF: \\u201cPlease press one, Mr. Jones.\\u201d

\\xa0

JDP: But anyway, they can hold you up to three days without bond. Then when you come back in, if you\\u2019re not indicted on complaint, then you have the right to a preliminary hearing, which means, one, that the alphabet agency guy gets up there and says what everybody else said. And the second thing is, are you a continuing threat to the community or a flight risk and need to be detained further without bond until this matter is over? Pretty high burdens on both of them. The nice thing is, the hearsay swings both ways. We can make proffers\\u2014and that by the way, Ms. Ford, is not a federally recognized word in criminal defense. It\\u2019s just whatever you\\u2019ve been told, that this man is not a flight risk or risk to the community or something like that.

\\xa0

JF: So our first step at defense, oftentimes, is in that first hearing. We\\u2019re defending his right to be released on an OR bond. We\\u2019re defending her right to go back home pending the outcome of this trial.

\\xa0

JDP: That\\u2019s correct. Now, let\\u2019s compare that to an indictment. An indictment is given by a jury of 16-23 citizens of Oklahoma who meet for six months at a time to hear evidence by a prosecutor all by the prosecutor\\u2014no cross-examination, no any type of spin, or anything like that.

\\xa0

JF: Nobody\\u2019s there to challenge the evidence that\\u2019s being presented.

\\xa0

JDP: That\\u2019s absolutely correct.

\\xa0

JF: Sounds fundamentally unfair.

\\xa0

JDP: Well, and it\\u2019s really kind of strange when you say it\\u2019s fundamentally unfair, because the unusual thing about it is that the founding fathers thought it would be our protection from the government. Now it\\u2019s being turned into being used as a club against our clients. Usually in that situation, somebody has received a target letter from the US Attorney\\u2019s office. \\u201cYou are being targeted in an investigation.\\u201d That means you have a target on your back and you are who they\\u2019re coming after. \\u201cWe hereby give you this opportunity to come in, spill your guts, and throw yourself at our mercy.\\u201d

\\xa0

JF: And let\\u2019s just stop right there. Maybe that\\u2019s the first time you meet an Oklahoma City Criminal Defense Attorney, when you open that target letter.

\\xa0

JDP: It\\u2019s probably after you get your first interview from the FBI, IRS, whatever, that comes out and says, \\u201cI\\u2019d like to talk to you about this little matter concerning money. Or this little matter concerning ownership.\\u201d And you go, \\u201cI didn\\u2019t even realize it, but I just talked to the FBI, and I wasn\\u2019t even Mirandized.\\u201d Voluntary conversations with the FBI?

\\xa0

JF: So I say again, when you receive that target letter, it\\u2019s time to call an Oklahoma City Criminal Defense Lawyer.

\\xa0

JDP: Actually, the time you need to all a criminal defense lawyer, Ms. Ford, is when they\\u2019re out there, \\u201cCan I just talk to you for a minute and let you explain this?\\u201d

\\xa0

JF: Stop talking to the alphabet agencies. You have the right to remain silent; exercise it. You have the right to a lawyer; exercise it.