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JDP: And always remember this. In this country, the US Supreme Court has said a man\\u2019s home is his castle; you cannot get into that castle without a search warrant.

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JF: Now, come on, Jack. If you\\u2019re not guilty and you didn\\u2019t do anything wrong, only a guilty person wouldn\\u2019t let them in and only a guilty person would ask for a lawyer.

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JDP: That\\u2019s why we have to be very careful in the selection of our jurors, Ms. Ford. Because we don\\u2019t want to have a juror on our panel that thinks like that, because in this country, our constitution says you are presumed innocent until found guilty beyond a reasonable doubt by a jury of your peers.

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JF: So it matters not what the agent at the door says or thinks or threatens; you should exercise those rights so that you can best protect yourself.

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JDP: That\\u2019s correct. If you let that agent cross that threshold, he could go anywhere in that house he wants to go. It\\u2019s a little tough to revoke your permission for him to go in when he\\u2019s got a badge and a gun. And he just kind of wanders around and looks in all of your stuff, and you think, \\u201cWell, he can\\u2019t do that.\\u201d But yeah, he can. You let him in. Don\\u2019t let him cross that threshold. You come outside and talk to him. They\\u2019re looking for evidence. And why are they talking to you? They want you to confess or tell them somebody is doing another crime or something like that. They\\u2019re very adept at their jobs.

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JF: And they\\u2019re nice guys; they\\u2019re not mean guys.

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JDP: Oh, they\\u2019ve got kids and dogs and houses and lawns and lawnmowers and a whole routine. They\\u2019re all nice guys. Some of these guys are my best friends. But if he thought I was doing something, if he sat down to have a conversation with me, then you always have to say, \\u201cIs this conversation for the record?\\u201d

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JF: It\\u2019s always for the record with the feds, right Jack?

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JDP: That\\u2019s exactly right. And it\\u2019s always for the record when you talk to a police officer. \\u201cOfficer, I only had one beer,\\u201d and the officer says, \\u201cYes, I can smell not very heavy alcohol on your breath. By the way, do you take those oxycontin for pain?\\u201d \\u201cI certainly do; my back is killing me.\\u201d \\u201cWhen\\u2019s the last time you had an oxycontin?\\u201d \\u201cI\\u2019ve had four today.\\u201d \\u201cSir, you\\u2019re under the influence of drugs.\\u201d Be careful. They\\u2019re your friends until\\u2026 Okay, now, if I have a problem and I need someone who makes a quick decision and takes no prisoners, I\\u2019m not calling a defense attorney. I call a cop. I want it done. \\u201cHelp me, brother.\\u201d I have tremendous respect for our law enforcement guys in the field.

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JF: I do, too.

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JDP: But anyway, back to federal criminal defense at your arraignment. If you\\u2019re indicted by a jury of 16-23 people, you do not have a right to have a preliminary hearing. You do have a right to have a hearing for detention. Will you be detained or not? That judgment call is usually by a United States Attorney who says, \\u201cI want him to be detained; he\\u2019s a flight risk, and he is therefore a danger to the community.\\u201d You must always know what to do, and that\\u2019s why it\\u2019s important to have an experienced Oklahoma City Criminal Defense Attorney in federal matters like Ms. Ford and myself. It\\u2019s critical that you have somebody who knows which stage the proceeding is and what law is involved\\u2014how the procedure works. I can assure you within the sound of my voice, in Oklahoma, there are probably not more than a dozen experienced federal criminal defense attorneys. It\\u2019s just a field of endeavor that a lot of people don\\u2019t like to do. Maybe because of the 70-Day Rule. When they file their indictment, they\\u2019re ready to go to trial.

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JF: Well, and you have to have a trial lawyer, too, because there\\u2019s no such thing as a plea agreement in federal court, right?

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JDP: All plea agreements are blind.

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JF: Which means the judge is making decisions. Litigation is going to happen. Whether you\\u2019ve agreed and admitted your guilt or not, you still have to argue to the court, so you have to be with a lawyer who is experienced in the courtroom, who is able and willing to stand up to the federal court judge or to a jury because you don\\u2019t get to agree to a deferred, and everybody goes home, and everybody goes on about their business. This not state court, so at every proceeding, you have to have someone who is ready, willing, and able to put 12 in a box. That\\u2019s why a trial lawyer is what you\\u2019re looking for.

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JDP: A federal trial lawyer. There are a lot of good state trial lawyers, but they don\\u2019t come to federal court. Two reasons, it\\u2019s a rocket docket, and you\\u2019ve got to be prepared\\u2014you can\\u2019t take the time reading through Title 18 and see what the federal rules are and all of that; you have to know that stuff.

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JF: You\\u2019ve got to know it and be ready to go on the fly.

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JDP: That\\u2019s exactly right.

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JF: That\\u2019s why I\\u2019m so glad I have you, Jack. I get to piggyback on the back of your 45 years of experience and have the benefit of learning about those sentencing guidelines from the best of the best.

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JDP: Oh, those sentencing guidelines. You know, I actually was\\u2014that was in 1984, and I don\\u2019t even think you were born, then, were you?

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JF: I was born in \\u201984. I\\u2019m not going to tell you how old I was then, but I was born.

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JDP: Well, I was trying a case.

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JF: I was not even in school.

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JDP: That\\u2019s kind of what I figured. Well, when the sentencing guidelines were passed by Congress, and everybody was going, \\u201cOh my gosh!\\u201d You know how government likes charts and menus.

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JF: Oh, their demonstrative aids and towers of power!

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JDP: And they go down through here, and it says this over part I and part B\\u2014that\\u2019s what the sentencing guidelines are. They were passed in 1984, they were ruled constitutional by the United States Supreme Court in 1987, and in the year 2003, the United States Supreme Court found the United States sentencing guidelines were no longer mandatory, but were advisory. And it gave the judges back the ability to look at a certain defendant who\\u2019s already paid back a couple of hundred thousands of dollars in a bank embezzlement case\\u2014no harm, no foul\\u2014and what a waste of time it is to put this guy in jail to the tune of $3,800 a year. Let\\u2019s just put him on probation, make sure he does all of these things, and when he finishes his probation, \\u201cThank you very much. You can become a citizen.\\u201d Unfortunately, he\\u2019s already a convicted felon, but you can\\u2019t play\\u2014particularly when you get caught in a federally-insured bank. It\\u2019s very important\\u2014I cannot emphasize the experience of a federal criminal defense attorney such as Ms. Ford or myself. Federal criminal defense is no place to have training wheels on; it\\u2019s impossible. It\\u2019s the wrong place. Too much is involved. The crimes and penalties are too draconian. Right now, the emphasis is on human trafficking, a deplorable crime. We\\u2019ve handled some human trafficking cases.

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JF: Yes, we have.

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JDP: Before that, it was the HIDTA\\u2014high impact drug enforcement\\u2014that basically worked with methamphetamine. They were after that. Before that, it was the section 924\\xa9. Guns. A convicted felon in Oklahoma can possess a long rifle for hunting purposes. Shotgun or rifle.

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JF: That\\u2019s the state law.

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JDP: That\\u2019s the State of Oklahoma law. You can\\u2019t have any pistols. A convicted felon under the federal system cannot even possess ammunition. No gun involved, just ammunition.

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JF: So not only is the punishment sometimes harsher, the procedure sometimes harsher, but also the constitutional rights you walk away from are much greater than what you might see in state court. And that\\u2019s another reason there\\u2019s such a difference between a state court lawyer and a federal criminal defense lawyer.

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JDP: I get a kick of these people who say, \\u201cOh, he got off on a technicality.\\u201d Very few people realize these technicalities are fundamental rights. They are constitutional protections that were given to us over 200 years. \\u201cHere, they can\\u2019t have a warrant until they come into your house. And it\\u2019s got to be issued by an impartial magistrate upon probable cause. We\\u2019re not going to let you cross that man\\u2019s threshold at all.\\u201d That works for the feds as much as it does for the state. And it\\u2019s more important than people understand\\u2014their constitutional rights are granted to them in federal courts in bigger portions than in state court. And I\\u2019m not saying that state court doesn\\u2019t care about them; it\\u2019s just the volume of people who are charged in state court. Ms. Ford, how many times have I told you what the conviction is for a federal criminal defendant?

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JF: Several times.

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JDP: And what would that number be?

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JF: 98%

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JDP: 98% of the people charged across the United State; 98% are convicted. What have I told you about the 2%?

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JF: There aren\\u2019t very many of them around.

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JDP: And what is the 2% club?

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JF: Those who have received an acquittal in federal court. It is a badge of honor.

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JDP: Ms. Ford, you and I are in that category, aren\\u2019t we?

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JF: Yes, sir. We are. We\\u2019ve had a lot of good luck in federal court.

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JDP: Nobody understands the 98% and the 2% club because people just go merrily on their way, going to the movies, and they\\u2019re in theaters, and at concerts, and this, that, and the other. And they never think about the federal government. Ms. Ford, do you know what the federal government did\\u2014they told you when to get up this morning?

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JF: Apparently they did, Jack. Tell us why the federal government told me when to get up this morning.

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JDP: Did you ever hear of Daylight Savings Time?

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JF: I have.

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JDP: And who established that?

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JF: Is that the feds?

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JDP: That\\u2019s correct! And, Ms. Ford, when you go to the ladies\\u2019 room, do you know the federal government tells where you can go to the ladies\\u2019 room?

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JF: Man, I haven\\u2019t ever thought of the feds when I was in the ladies\\u2019 room, but tell me how they control that, too, Jack.

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JDP: Did you ever hear of the EPA?

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JF: Yes, sir.

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JDP: And have you ever looked at your water bill at your home or apartment where it says, \\u201cUnfunded federal mandate.\\u201d

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JF: I\\u2019ve always wondered what that fee was.

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JDP: Basically what that is is the federal government has said, \\u201cYou build this kind of sewer system\\u201d or \\u201cYou build this kind of a waste water system\\u201d and we don\\u2019t have any money for you.\\u201d It\\u2019s just \\u201cYou build it, and we don\\u2019t care how you build it.\\u201d That\\u2019s why it\\u2019s called federal unfunded mandate. So there\\u2019s just two examples of how the federal government has encroached in our lives now. When you get in trouble with the feds, you\\u2019ve got to have someone who knows what they\\u2019re doing like Ms. Ford\\u2014knows what questions to ask and specifically knows what to do. People in state court\\u2014I cannot tell you the admiration I have for any attorney that goes in front of a jury, their peers, 12 people, and actually tries a case on the behalf of a defendant. But it\\u2019s not that easy to take that person out of a state courtroom and put him into a federal courtroom.

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JF: Well it was a hard transition for me when I moved from state court practice to federal court practice. It is a very different beast, if you will. I\\u2019m enjoying it, learning the ropes, but it is quite different than anything I\\u2019ve ever done before as an attorney. And it\\u2019s very different to even talk to my friends and colleagues about it. They oftentimes are shocked at the pace, at the rules, at how bound we might get up in the rules. And it\\u2019s a difficult thing to move forward with, and I think our clients are very lucky because when they come here, they don\\u2019t just get the benefits of the energy and the mouth and the fire, but they also get you with the great experience. I think it\\u2019s okay to tell our listeners that, oftentimes, federal court cases (almost every one of them\\u2014not every one of them, but most of them) we do together, whether they\\u2019re your clients or my client. I think it\\u2019s an incredible service they get\\u2014they get both your experience and my youthfulness, but together they\\u2019ve got a lot of attention, a lot of love, and a lot of dedication to what\\u2019s going on in their defense.

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JDP: I would not be associated with you and our staff if I did not believe that wholeheartedly. It\\u2019s a journey you and I began together, and hopefully we\\u2019ll end together. Anyway, I think that\\u2019s enough.

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JF: Thank you so much, Jack, for talking to us today. I know you\\u2019re going to talk to us again soon, and we\\u2019re going to do more on federal court practice\\u2014the ins, the outs, what our clients need to know, and what people need to know about federal criminal defense here in Oklahoma City. So thank you very much, Jack, for joining us today.

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JDP: You\\u2019re quite welcome.