Making Technology Accessible
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In honor of International Day of Persons with Disabilities on December 3rd, the Windows Insider Podcast team explores advancements in inclusive technology. For decades, Microsoft has been creating products and services to serve people of all abilities, and in recent years the company has made a stronger commitment to this goal with the appointment of Chief Accessibility Officer, Jenny Lay-Flurrie. In this episode, we chat with Jenny about the future of inclusive tech, and we learn how feedback from users (and Windows Insiders!) is shaping Microsoft\\u2019s efforts.\\xa0To find out more about Microsoft\\u2019s commitment to accessibility and inclusion, visit Microsoft.com/Accessibility.
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Episode transcript:
NARRATOR:\\xa0 Welcome to the Windows Insider where we explore all things Windows, the Insider community and beyond
I\'m your host, Jason Howard (ph).\\xa0 You are listening to Episode 9, and this month\'s theme is accessibility
JASON HOWARD:\\xa0 Wait a minute, that\'s not me.\\xa0 That was the Windows 10 Narrator.\\xa0 And it\'s more than just a podcast gimmick, the Narrator feature helps people who are blind or have low vision navigate their computers by reading what\'s on screen
When you think about how much of what we do in the world relies on what can be read, you really start to understand how this technology could impact the lives of millions of people
More and more accessibility features are built into the DNA of Microsoft services and products.\\xa0 These features deliver on Microsoft\'s mission to empower every person and every organization on the planet to achieve more.\\xa0 That includes ensuring people of all abilities can participate in life, work, and society
Today, we\'re going to talk to someone who\'s taking the ideals of accessibility and inclusion and putting them into action.\\xa0 Please meet Microsoft\'s Chief Accessibility Officer, Jenny Lay-Flurrie
So here you are the Chief Accessibility Officer.
JENNY LAY-FLURRIE:\\xa0 I am
JASON HOWARD:\\xa0 What does that mean
JENNY LAY-FLURRIE:\\xa0 Basically, it means that my job is to drive for a great experience for customers with disabilities and employees with disabilities, and also really pursue the concept of inclusive design.
So it just means I\'m really thinking about a section of our customer base that\'s pretty big, and how we can ensure that we\'re delivering great products, great services, great hiring process, to ensure that we\'re really inclusive
JASON HOWARD:\\xa0 A few years ago, accessibility could have been considered a side project at many companies, but things have changed, at least at Microsoft.\\xa0 Now it\'s becoming an integral part of our company culture and product development.\\xa0 Can you tell us how that happened
JENNY LAY-FLURRIE:\\xa0 Yeah, it\'s kind of cool what\'s going on, and I\'m loving being part of it.\\xa0 But actually accessibility has been part of Microsoft\'s strategy for well over actually 20 years.\\xa0 But we\'ve definitely in the last couple of years decided to really kick it up a notch
And by kicking it up a notch, it\'s just really leaning into the opportunity that we have.\\xa0 You know, there\'s a billion people in the world with disabilities, a billion plus.\\xa0 These are our customers, our friends, our peers, our everything.\\xa0 And there\'s a whole suite of innovation that can come from really designing products and building products that include disability
So we invested in some resources across the company, across our product divisions, including my lovely team, and really decided to go after that opportunity to build better products, and to really think about how we were hiring talent across the spectrum of disability as well
JASON HOWARD:\\xa0 So Microsoft\'s CEO Satya Nadella has a son who\'s in a wheelchair because of cerebral palsy, and is paralyzed.\\xa0 Satya has said in his new book Hit Refresh that having a son with disabilities has made him more empathetic, and that\'s one of the reasons he\'s committed to driving accessibility and inclusion at Microsoft.\\xa0 That explains why the company is working towards some of these accessibility initiatives
On a personal level what experience has led you to working in accessibility
JENNY LAY-FLURRIE:\\xa0 It\'s a great question, and Satya, the book is just it\'s incredible.\\xa0 And if you haven\'t read it, please do.\\xa0 I mean, Satya is sharing his own personal experiences there.\\xa0 It\'s just incredibly powerful
I think we\'ve all had a personal journey.\\xa0 My personal journey, let\'s just say I would never have predicted that I would be doing this job today.\\xa0 I mean, I come from a small town on the outskirts of Birmingham in the UK.\\xa0 I went through mainstream education.\\xa0 I went to a music college.\\xa0 I got a classical music degree.\\xa0 And I thought I was going to be a really cool classical rock star or a music therapist or something in that vein
And then I started working in IT, actually in a newspaper in London on the IT help desk, and realized that I dig, I just love problem-solving.\\xa0 And I thought that was going to be my career was, you know, solving problems with IT and doing a bit of music on the side
But all the way through the one stream that I\'ve had all the way through this is that I\'m deaf, I\'m profoundly deaf.\\xa0 And my deafness has decreased since I was a child
So I went to music college with moderate deafness.\\xa0 It\'s slid since then.\\xa0 And I never, ever -- I mean, I hid\\xa0 my deafness for many years, wasn\'t really open about it.\\xa0 But I think maybe people way wiser and smarter than me could have predicted the path is me realizing that I could really use these skills, and use them to make a difference, not just for me and my friends, but to make a difference seriously in a company like Microsoft
So I came to Microsoft 13 years ago.\\xa0 I came to run technical support, still solving problems, and then about five, six years ago took a risk and changed career, and went to be an individual contributor to change the world for customers with disabilities, and I\'ve never looked back
JASON HOWARD:\\xa0 Wow.\\xa0 So how does working in this field change the way you see the world
JENNY LAY-FLURRIE:\\xa0 I\'ve worked in different jobs over the years, you know, whether it was support or online advertising for a while.\\xa0 I\'ve worked in different things.\\xa0 And I firmly believe that technology has the power to empower.\\xa0 And I\'ve seen that in different spheres, but I think never more in the work that I do today, which is every day working with peers and friends, seeing how they\'re leveraging technology and just realizing and appreciating what we can do to make that experience better, whether it\'s somebody using a wheelchair with limited dexterity manipulating some part of Office, or it\'s somebody who\'s blind working through a web page, whether that\'s our own or someone else\'s, or me with captioning and how that changes my life and others, and how we can get that more integrated into the fabric of our company
So you know, I really do think that it\'s a really empowering field to work in.\\xa0 I walk out every day with the same frustrations and same joys as everyone else, but I do have a deep-seated sense that we are making a difference.\\xa0 And that\'s the opportunity we have
JASON HOWARD:\\xa0 Well, as you just mentioned Office, Microsoft has developed a wide variety of accessibility features such as Windows 10 Narrator, Office 365\'s built-in tools for authoring accessible content, things of that nature.\\xa0 There\'s even eye tracking technology that enables people who have limited mobility to navigate their PCs using only their eyes
Can you tell us about the development of those features?\\xa0 Did anything come up unnecessary during the R&D research and development cycle
JENNY LAY-FLURRIE:\\xa0 I don\'t know what you mean.\\xa0 I don\'t think anything ever comes up that surprises during an R&D cycle.\\xa0 (Laughter.)\\xa0 I can\'t ever imagine that scenario playing out
Always.\\xa0 And I think at the core if we follow those principles of inclusive design, inclusive design is all about making sure that you design a product that is embedding the feedback of people and experts.\\xa0 And in our area that\'s people with disabilities
So whenever we\'re looking, and Office has done incredible job across every single component of Office 365, across every platform, of putting a brand new bar of accessibility out there, and that\'s anything from PowerPoint to Excel to Sway, right?\\xa0 If you don\'t Sway, you should Sway.\\xa0 And every single componentry has been designed in collaboration with people
So that means you do some prototypes, you get them out there, you get a bunch of people in a room, and you say, hey, but have a play, and scenario-led and all that good stuff
But yet it\'s very hard to replicate the experience of someone who\'s blind or someone with a visual impairment.\\xa0 The speed at which they are reading the screen, as somebody who\'s deaf it\'s very hard for me to comprehend, and it\'s way faster than we can sign
You have to lean into the experiences that you get from people, and you learn the hints and tricks and the keyboard shortcuts are very important.\\xa0 And if you have tried to go off the standardized path, you need to pull it back in a little bit
And just the extra words that we tend to put in, or if we put in alt-text, you know, the words that describe images, and we don\'t put those in accurately, just how destructive that can be to the overall usability of the experience
So I think we\'ve learned a lot along the way, and we\'ve definitely learned a lot with eye control, the new feature in Windows, because that came from a hack actually three years ago, the first hack that I ever got involved in, and it was a guy called Steve Gleason from Louisiana who came to us with a list of beautiful ideas that basically were, hey, Microsoft, can you make my experience better?\\xa0 He\'s an NFL player, a Spokane native, Washington State native, but living in Louisiana with his wife and beautiful kid Rivers.\\xa0 And he was the genesis of a three-year journey through our research division, through Windows division, and many, many more, and many people with ALS here in Seattle that helped us to get eye control into Windows
And we\'re still learning.\\xa0 It\'s a beater feature, and we\'re still learning.\\xa0 You can\'t replicate ALS.\\xa0 It\'s about hours and hours and hours of sitting with people and understanding how to make sure it\'s the best experience
But yeah, you can now control your mouse with your eyes.\\xa0 You can type with your eyes using a Windows device with a full Creator\'s Update.\\xa0 So it\'s pretty kickass
JASON HOWARD:\\xa0 That\'s quite a journey, it seems
JENNY LAY-FLURRIE:\\xa0 Yeah, I do think it\'s a journey, and I think we\'ll continue to reiterate.\\xa0 And that\'s also why Insiders are so important, right?\\xa0 We need -- we need people to give us that feedback, what is working, what is not, what can we tweak, what can we improve, what\'s driving you nuts.\\xa0 We\'re only as good as the feedback that we get
JASON HOWARD:\\xa0 I wanted to ask you about how you include people with disabilities in the product development process, but it seems like the Insider programs are a great way to start with that
JENNY LAY-FLURRIE:\\xa0 You know, there\'s multiple, multiple also ways to give feedback.\\xa0 There always are in a company this size with as many products as we have
The Insiders I cannot promote enough.\\xa0 I mean, I think it\'s just a brilliant way to get involved in early stage technology that may be buggy, that may have some funkiness to it, but you have the opportunity to give us feedback knowing that we\'re listening, and know we\'re really listening for our customers with disabilities who are using accessible technology.\\xa0 We want that feedback.\\xa0 It\'s gold dust.
And you have the chance to shape the next rev, right, of Windows.\\xa0 There\'s nothing more powerful than that
The same with Office.\\xa0 You know, there\'s an Office Insiders program.
But there\'s also other ways.\\xa0 If you\'re not too game to install a potential version of Windows that may disrupt the flow a little bit, then there\'s User Voice.\\xa0 We have forums there where we\'re always listening for features.\\xa0 We\'re voting them up, voting them down
And also you can give feedback within Narrator built-in screen reader
So there\'s plenty, plenty ways to make sure your voice is heard
JASON HOWARD:\\xa0 And now just kind of as a personal note, being on the Windows Insider team, one of the things that when we originally got started, accessibility wasn\'t necessarily a blocking gate as part of promoting builds from our internal canary and self-host rings into the fast and slow rings.
And part of the feedback that we got was we were making it entirely too difficult to get some of the feedback that was extremely important to get during that development cycle.\\xa0 So especially for the slow ring and more so now into the fast ring accessibility is becoming a blocking gate to help ensure that we don\'t break that experience for the users who are giving us that type of feedback
JENNY LAY-FLURRIE:\\xa0 I love that.\\xa0 I\'m so excited that the priority of accessibility within Insiders and within our products broadly generally is at that level where, yeah, if we\'re not cutting it, we\'re going to stop ship, right?\\xa0 I mean, it\'s that important to us.\\xa0 So yeah, I mean, the advice I get, know your power.\\xa0 You have huge power to influence the flow of our product set
JASON HOWARD:\\xa0 So along the way obviously there have been many changes of course.\\xa0 Was there anything that you thought would be an easier problem to solve but proved to be a bit more complex than expected originally
JENNY LAY-FLURRIE:\\xa0 Harder to solve.\\xa0 You know, I think when you\'re looking at accessibility across as many products as we have, and we have really five product divisions, and each of our product sets is launching multiple, you know, literally hundreds of products every year and every month and every week, you know, my biggest challenge today is just really making sure that we keep the consistency, we keep prioritizing at this level, and we keep innovating
Yeah, there are some brilliant features that have come out of now our emphasis on AI in one of our five divisions that\'s making an impact in Windows.\\xa0 In fact, if you\'re blind and using a screen reader or Narrator, and it comes up in images, it\'s leveraging AI describing that image and embedding alt-text in and speaking that as part of your experience
So no longer are we reliant on everyone to be able to write really good alt-text, right, the descriptions behind these pictures.\\xa0 We can leverage some of our AI infrastructure.
And I\'m looking forward to doing that a lot more, that kind of collaboration across the groups, bringing different parts of joy and wisdom from one into the other.\\xa0 And both Office and Windows are doing amazing work there
But yes, it\'s a broad gig, and the bar is very high, because we do believe that this isn\'t just about meeting a conformance or compliance, this is about leveraging the power of what is possible with the lens of disability
JASON HOWARD:\\xa0 So the Windows 10 Fall Creator\'s Update was available through the Insider program months ago.\\xa0 And the public beta has already launched.\\xa0 The actual retail release is occurring right now.\\xa0 And obviously Insiders were able to preview this.\\xa0 Were there any specific features that showed up in this past development cycle that you\'ve seen in action with real users out in the world?
JENNY LAY-FLURRIE:\\xa0 Eye control we\'ve already mentioned.\\xa0 That\'s built into Fall Creator\'s Update.\\xa0 It\'s an early feature.\\xa0 We\'re already getting some feedback.\\xa0 We really want more.\\xa0 And, you know, that\'s one that\'s just going to grow.\\xa0 You do need a 4C Tobii device in order to leverage the feature.\\xa0 So yeah, there are a couple of things to think through with eye control if you\'re looking at that
I think the other thing with Fall Creators that I really love are the color filters.\\xa0 This is a brand new feature set.\\xa0 But if you think about it, color blindness is huge.\\xa0 Color blindness affects -- it\'s around 1 in 9 individuals, and mostly men.\\xa0 And there\'s lots of different types of color blindness.\\xa0
Well, now you can go into your ease of use settings within Windows and you can select one of those filters, and hopefully see Windows in a different way as a result
So that\'s just brilliant innovation, and I\'ve seen some of that out in the wild, and got some really good feedback from folks who are loving it.\\xa0 But I also think that\'s a brand new one that I want to make sure people know about and are leveraging.\\xa0 I was showing a bunch of people yesterday.\\xa0 And it\'s amazing how many people, you\'ll be sitting in a meeting and mention this feature, and I dare you, right, I bet you at least one hand goes up, because it is that prevalent
So I really do love the color filters.\\xa0 I think those are really cool
The other one just within Windows I have to mention just Narrator. The Windows team has been really incrementally every release tweaking and performance improvements on Narrator.\\xa0 They\'re also now making sure that magnifier speaks with Narrator as well.
And if you are using screen readers, just please go and try it out.\\xa0 I mean, we\'ve really worked on the languages, we\'ve worked on the speed, we\'ve worked on the accuracy and the usability of it.
And so it\'s been incremental.\\xa0 You know, if you\'re tracking where we\'re going, this is probably about third or fourth release with improvements to Narrator.\\xa0 But I urge you to give it a go.\\xa0 It\'s kind of fun
JASON HOWARD:\\xa0 So we mentioned eye tracking technology a couple times, and how it enables people who can\'t type to both communicate and interact with their PCs.\\xa0\\xa0 But at some point, it could be something that we all use.\\xa0 So how do you see the field of inclusion driving innovation into the future
JENNY LAY-FLURRIE:\\xa0 I look at that journey that we started with eye control, you know, going back to Steve and an e-mail, right?\\xa0 It just came from an e-mail, right?\\xa0 That was the genesis of all of our efforts here
And then you meet Steve and you fall in love, and you\'re totally lost, right?\\xa0 You\'ll do anything for team Gleason
But I think where it\'s at now is tip of the iceberg as to where it could go.\\xa0 I\'ve spent some time really looking into eye control, using your eyes to control a device, and there really is limitless potential there for that
And then you look at other areas, right, what we can do and what we are doing with captioning.\\xa0 One of my favorite products is Microsoft Translator.\\xa0 And we\'ve actually now got an add-in in PowerPoint
And what it means is that I can be standing on stage or I can be watching somebody else using PowerPoint, and as long as they\'re mic\'d up pretty well, the words of what they\'re saying will appear on the screen, automatically captioned onto the screen
Now, it in no way replaces the need that I had for my beautiful interpreter sitting to your right or for actual captioning which comes from people using stenographers, using those devices you see in court.\\xa0 But it\'s automatic captions that instantly is available, giving me independence, giving me the ability to make a phone call, right, if you think about it, as we start to weave that technology in
So what it means is we have the chance not just to level the playing field, we have the chance to advance the playing field.
People with disabilities in the U.S. but also more broadly, the unemployment rate is double that of people without disabilities.\\xa0 And a lot of the reason is this empowerment.\\xa0 We have this opportunity to empower in the workplace, empower at home.\\xa0 We can change an unemployment rate
So I get very excited about it, because I look at how technology is impacting my life, and I know there\'s a long, long way to go.\\xa0 I look at how eye control has the power to impact communication for Steve going down the road again, and how things like Narrator can impact someone who\'s blind. \\xa0And we\'re on a journey, but I do believe that over time technology can make that difference
JASON HOWARD:\\xa0 It sounds like you have quite an impressive vision for the future of technology.\\xa0 It\'s going to be fun to join along that ride and see where we go from here
JENNY LAY-FLURRIE:\\xa0 Game on, right
JASON HOWARD:\\xa0 Absolutely
JENNY LAY-FLURRIE:\\xa0 Okay
JASON HOWARD:\\xa0 So before we break, if you let your imagination run wild, what do you see as the future of technology
JENNY LAY-FLURRIE:\\xa0 Oh, this is a fun one.\\xa0 So I\'m a big Trekkie fan.\\xa0 I mean, I am a big Trekkie.\\xa0 I mean, it\'s not something I talk a lot about, but my father educated me really well
And, I mean, you think about some of the technologies that were there, I mean, they had people with disabilities empowered through tech, right?\\xa0 Geordi La Forge and his visor, I mean, how wicked is that
I also think about Xbox and the power of holograms, and while I love my interpreter with every part of my soul before she throws things at me across the room, I mean, wouldn\'t it be wicked on-demand whenever I needed it to be able to just have a hologram appear and be able to understand a room with my interpreter just sitting right there?\\xa0 And sometimes invisible.\\xa0 Again I love you, but a little bit invisible.\\xa0 I mean, that would be just wicked.\\xa0 No scheduling, no logistics, just poof, up it comes, complete independence and freedom
And I would love to see wheelchairs seamlessly going down stairs.\\xa0 There\'s been a lot of different crazy stuff around that.\\xa0 My goodness, I could keep going.\\xa0 I mean, it\'s world is our oyster I think with this space
JASON HOWARD:\\xa0 So it seems you have quite the vision for the future of technology.\\xa0 Before we wrap up, is there anything specific you\'d like to share with the users
JENNY LAY-FLURRIE:\\xa0 Yeah.\\xa0 Get involved, get going.\\xa0 Please do check out the website.\\xa0 That\'s really the single spot where everything is linked.\\xa0 So it\'s Microsoft.com/accessibility.\\xa0 That\'s got details on our products, it\'s got details on conformance.\\xa0 I mean, it\'s got details on feedback channels.\\xa0 It\'s really a one-stop shop.\\xa0 It\'s got our hiring programs on there as well
And the one I\'d call out really is our support team.\\xa0 We actually have a dedicated support environment for our customers with disabilities.\\xa0 It\'s called DAD, Disability Answer Desk.\\xa0 I have no MOM, but I do have a DAD on my team.\\xa0 And basically they are experts in accessibility, they\'re experts in accessible technologies.\\xa0 And so give them a call.\\xa0 You can use chat, you can use phone.
And for our deaf customers -- and we\'ll transcribe this podcast, so I know they\'ll be looking at it, too -- we also have direct videos so you can contact us in American Sign Language, ASL.\\xa0 And so they can help you with the latest rev of product
But I know for our Insiders they\'re on it, and I just encourage the feedback, and let us know what else you want to see, because this is a journey and we\'ll only be as good as the feedback we get
JASON HOWARD:\\xa0 Absolutely
For you non-Trekkies out there, the visor Jenny mentioned earlier is a device worn by the character Geordi La Forge from the series Star Trek the Next Generation.\\xa0 If you\'re not familiar with this, you can check it out on Bing.
Whatever changes may come in tech, it\'s exciting to know that these efforts will allow more people to participate in school, work, and their personal lives
My conversation with Jenny got me wondering, what kind of impact do innovations in Windows 10 have for real people.\\xa0 So I sat down with a Windows Insider who is blind and uses accessibility technologies every day
JOSEPH LEE:\\xa0 I\'m Joseph Lee, currently a student at Cal State Los Angeles, studying communication studies, formerly studying computer science at UC Riverside, and currently a Windows Insider.\\xa0 And I joined the Windows Insider program.\\xa0 I was one of the first ones to get in on the first day when the very first build came out in October, 2014.
And right now as part of my Insider program work I also am a developer of a screen reader, a third party screen reader named NVDA, Nonvisual Desktop Access
So my work currently focuses on making sure that Redstone 4 builds are usable by people with visual impairments, specifically with Narrator and NVDA and other screen readers
JASON HOWARD:\\xa0 So obviously you\'re a Windows Insider, and you said you\'ve been participating in the program since the beginning
JOSEPH LEE:\\xa0 Yes, since the beginning
JASON HOWARD:\\xa0 So just kind of overall how has the experience been of being a Windows Insider?
JOSEPH LEE:\\xa0 I\'m impressed with progress I\'ve seen, especially with accessibility features and other Windows features that does have accessibility potential such as most recently eye gaze or eye control, and Cortana obviously, progress with Microsoft Edge and seeing how people can how use consoles with Narrator and many other interesting developments in the accessibility space
JASON HOWARD:\\xa0 That\'s awesome
So I do want to ask you about some of your personal experiences, if that\'s okay
JOSEPH LEE:\\xa0 Sure
JASON HOWARD:\\xa0 You know, you mentioned earlier of studying engineering.\\xa0 I\'m assuming that was at UC Riverside, as you had mentioned.\\xa0 What was that experience like?\\xa0 If I understand correctly, you were one of the first blind students to actually be in the engineering program at that college
JOSEPH LEE:\\xa0 I was one of the first blind students to take on engineering.\\xa0 And for me it was a challenge, at first, because professors didn\'t know how to describe calculus graphs to me.\\xa0 I knew the formulas for what the theorems were, but then in terms of graphing and whatnot it was a challenge.\\xa0 For me it was quite an interesting experience going through computer science as a blind student.\\xa0 Initially means communication but then in the end through some negotiations and communication it worked out
JASON HOWARD:\\xa0 So it sounds like you made some progress after a little bit of talking here, you know, some -- getting on the same page, it sounds like, to make some accommodations given the change in the environment, at least for that professor, right
JOSEPH LEE:\\xa0 Perfectly right.\\xa0 In the early on, right
JASON HOWARD:\\xa0 So kind of on a broader scale like just in life as a whole can you describe the experience of having a visual impairment for our listeners
JOSEPH LEE:\\xa0 I was initially able to see, because I was low vision early on, because I was able to use magnifying glasses to see and walk around, or even take transportation around.\\xa0 But the overall experience of visual impairment is adjustment and negotiation, adjustment because as often said in many research papers that if you lose one sense, it enhances the others.\\xa0 For many people for visual impairment it\'s either touch or hearing.\\xa0 In my case I\'m blessed with both senses.
And the other one is negotiation, trying to live life with something at a loss, but then it opens up a lot of opportunities such as being able to become more sensitive to hearing things such as hearing conversations much better, and being able to use alternative forms of communication, for example, as we\'ll get into, the screen readers, assistive tools, or sometimes even reading braille
So for those who never experienced visual impairment, it\'s like stepping into another culture.\\xa0 There\'s always going to be initial shock or loss, but then what makes a huge difference in the lives of people with visual impairment is seeing the potential despite loss of something, through adjustment in whatever they do, and negotiating the path forward
JASON HOWARD:\\xa0 You\'ve had plenty of experience using technology.\\xa0 Can you tell me about some of the early experiences previously?\\xa0 Because obviously you said there\'s been a lot of progress and a lot of change.\\xa0 So some of that older, early experience, can you tell me about using technology previously?
JOSEPH LEE:\\xa0 For me the very first taste of technology was when one of my elementary school teachers brought in a printed circuit board, a PCB.\\xa0 And then a few months later, I got introduced to computers through DOS and screen reader.\\xa0 Back then the screen readers would just take whatever is on the console and just print it out.
And then this around the time is when I moved to U.S.\\xa0 And then a few years later, I was introduced to what we now call a primitive note-taker device, a video cassette sized hardware with seven keys, six keys for braille dots and a spacebar.\\xa0 And the alternative, because the market for assistive technology is small, back then it retailed for more than a thousand dollars
JASON HOWARD:\\xa0 Wow
JOSEPH LEE:\\xa0 About 1,500, to be exact
JASON HOWARD:\\xa0 Oh my goodness
JOSEPH LEE:\\xa0 Being able to use more advanced tools in Microsoft Office or being able to use more complicated websites was just a dream for us.\\xa0 It was just static pages, static web pages, just using the basic features of Office, basic features of Word, and using Outlook as an e-mail client and whatnot
That was early days, and that is very, very different world today when we have touchscreens, we have Surface Book 2, we have mixed reality, we have potentials for Cortana collections and whatnot
JASON HOWARD:\\xa0 So let me touch back on the Windows Insider program for a moment.\\xa0 So obviously you having been in the program from the beginning, you\'ve seen the change of accessibility features and the focus in Windows on accessibility along the progress as Windows 10 has jumped from build to build and release to release along the way.\\xa0 And being an Insider obviously you have a chance to help influence the design of Windows and the progress of accessibility along the way.\\xa0 Can you tell us about some of the experience you\'ve had in helping guide the future of accessibility within Windows
JOSEPH LEE:\\xa0 I joined the Insider program mostly to see how accessibility is going, as mentioned, as well as to see, making sure that people with disabilities will not be left out in making sure that Windows 10 ecosystems are working for them and whatnot
For me I think the biggest influence that I had on the program, and the most fruitful experience is dialogue and collaboration.\\xa0 Back then in the early days of Windows Insider program I wrote an open letter to Microsoft addressed to Terry Myerson and other top executives, asking them to invest in accessibility, asking third party universal app developers to invest in listening to feedback on accessibility needs, because they will be potentially speaking and interacting with at least 400 million customers worldwide, and this is just visual impairment.\\xa0 But there are billions of people who have visible and invisible disabilities around the world
So that was my first initial focus of the Windows Insider program back then, and I think that has been the most fruitful thing I\'ve seen
Obviously appointment of Jenny Lay-Flurrie, on Twitter Jenny Lay-Fluffy, as Chief Accessibility Officer has been a greatest, one of the most significant achievements in terms of disability advocacy at Microsoft
And the other thing that I helped influence is making sure that people think about accessibility in giving feedback
JASON HOWARD:\\xa0 We\'ve talked a lot about Windows, we\'ve talked about accessibility, we talked about some of your background, but let me ask you an important question about yourself.\\xa0 Like what are some of your goals in life
JOSEPH LEE:\\xa0 Since I was a kid, I want to get into teaching.\\xa0 My other life goal has been to serve, not just teach, because I feel that it is much better for people to show that they are willing to serve others than to be served.\\xa0 Because for me serving others meant trying to find out what\'s going on so they can have a better experience in life or providing technical support.\\xa0 And that\'s one of the reasons why I joined Insider program was to serve
So those are my life goals, to one day stand on a podium and give lectures about computer science, communication studies, and whatever I learn, and serve
JASON HOWARD:\\xa0 Are you looking to teach others who have the same sight impairment as you or just broadly in general you want to reach out to anybody that you can have an effect on?
JOSEPH LEE:\\xa0 Ah, so mostly general public, because to me it doesn\'t matter who the audiences are, as long as they get the message.\\xa0 It doesn\'t have to be people who use screen readers, it doesn\'t have to be all the blind people alone, all blind people in a group sitting together and using various phones and laptops.\\xa0 It could be people, general public who are really interested in the back behind the scenes story of disability, accessibility work, or anything, that I need to tell the public about what I\'m passionate about
JASON HOWARD:\\xa0 Well, Joseph, I have to say it\'s been fantastic chatting with you today.\\xa0 Thank you so much for taking time out of your schedule.\\xa0 I know being a student is chaotic and crazy.\\xa0 There\'s a lot going on.\\xa0 Your time is a bit limited.\\xa0 But it means a lot to us for you to have taken the time to come and speak with us today.\\xa0 So thank you so very much for that
JOSEPH LEE:\\xa0 You\'re welcome
JASON HOWARD:\\xa0 It\'s been a pleasure
As we innovate for accessibility and inclusion, it can lead to benefits for people of all abilities.\\xa0 Take this scenario:\\xa0 sidewalks have a ramp to enable people in wheelchairs to use them, but that ramp is also helpful for people on bikes or with rolling luggage.\\xa0 It\'s a great example of inclusive design benefitting everyone
In addition to changes in the physical world like sidewalk ramps, accessibility features and inclusive design are already changing the way people of all abilities interact with technology.\\xa0 Who knows what the future will bring?\\xa0 It\'s possible that eye tracking and Narrator will have a broader influence on how we all use Windows
If you have questions or feedback about Microsoft\'s accessibility efforts, I\'ll include some information to learn more in this episode\'s description.\\xa0 And if you want to try out the features we mentioned for yourself, all you need to do is download the Windows 10 Fall Creator\'s Update.\\xa0 And of course keep flighting for the chance to get the first look at the newest features in Microsoft releases
Thanks for listening to this month\'s episode of the Windows Insider podcast.\\xa0 If you like this episode, be sure to subscribe wherever you get your podcast.\\xa0 We\'ll be tackling some great topics in the coming months like mixed reality.\\xa0 You won\'t want to miss them
Thanks, Insiders.\\xa0 Catch you next time on the Windows Insider podcast
NARRATOR:\\xa0 Our program today was produced by Microsoft Production Studios.\\xa0 The Insider team includes Tyler Ahn, Michelle Paison, and Amelia Greim
Our website is insider.windows.com.\\xa0 Support for the Windows Insider podcast comes from Microsoft, empowering every person and every organization on the planet to achieve more
Moral support and inspiration comes from Ninja Cat, reminding us to have fun and pursue our passions
Thanks as always to our program\'s cofounders, Donna Sarkar and Jeremiah Marble.
Make sure you never miss an episode of the Windows Insider podcast by subscribing wherever you get your podcasts.
And if you like this episode, be sure to review and rate the podcast so others can discover it
Join us next month for more stories with Windows InsidersEND
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