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Intro Guy 0:00
Your journey has been an interesting one up to hear you\'ve questioned so much more than those around you. You\'ve even questioned yourself as to how you could have grown into these thoughts. Am I crazy? When did I begin to think differently? Why do people in general, you\'re so limited thought process Rest assured, you are not alone. The world is slowly waking up to what you already know inside yet can\'t quite verbalize. Welcome to the spiritual dough podcast, the show that answers the question you never even knew to ask, but knew the answers to questions about you this world the people in it? Most importantly, how do I proceed? Now moving forward? We don\'t even have all the answers, but we sure do love living in the question. Time for another hit of spiritual dub with your host, Brandon Handley. Let\'s get right into today\'s episode.

Brandon Handley 0:43
Hey there spiritual dope. I\'m on here today with John Goff. He has alternative views through metaphysics, philosophy and martial arts. He\'s taking people to uncomfortable places and learning to breathe through it. Clearing trauma, emotions, energy, bringing humanity back to a state of light and wholeness. Remembering what they have only forgotten John, thanks for being on here today, man. They can have me on. All right, cool. So I don\'t know if you\'ve ever listened to an episode or not. So I like to start these off with the whole idea that you and I are conduits for universal energy, right? We\'re here as a service to others, not just for ourselves. And when somebody tunes into this podcast, they are. They\'re gonna hear a message that can only be delivered to them for them. Right now, like that\'s coming through you? What\'s that message, John?

John Goff 1:38
Living in the present. We\'re surrounded by technology. And while this technology can be beautiful, it can help us communicate and have moments like this, where we can talk to our friends, we can have videos and people all across the globe. There should be a limit to it. Well, what time do you disconnect? Do you put it down? He\'s like, Yeah, we\'re gonna take pictures want to share in everybody? So what about a moment that you\'re alone? That moment you\'re you\'re with somebody, and you\'re not present. You\'re so connected to electronics, the forget what\'s like distill that moment. I don\'t care if you got a zoo. If you\'re out in nature, there\'s a butterfly going by yo, you\'re trying to catch the butterfly. But you didn\'t capture the butterfly in motion with your heart. So taking time,

Brandon Handley 2:22
yeah, look, man, I\'ve been I\'ve been guilty of this, right. I\'ve been guilty of not capturing the moment so much for myself and being present. But Who Wouldn\'t this make a great post Ooh, wouldn\'t just make a great posts or something like that. Right. So I\'ve, I\'ve been guilty. And I absolutely know what that\'s, you know what you\'re talking about? And as a matter of fact, I mean, I was thinking today, I was making some dinner a little bit ago. Like, John, I can barely remember life before the internet, let alone like now now with like, kind of social media and all this other stuff, right? Never posted before my life, right? You know, 20 years ago, you never posted. So, you know, we were not being as present as we could, right? We\'re still like so connected, even at the phones, like kind of like away from us right now. We\'re like, oh, maybe I should make a post. Or maybe I should do this. And it sounds like what you\'re suggesting is like, you know, kind of unplug and get reconnected with the present, get reconnected with yourself. And what\'s actually right there with you. So I\'m just saying,

John Goff 3:28
Yes, I mean, I know a lot of us, our businesses, our podcasts that, you know, we need this technology, to express our message and to really get out there. But after the message sent out, what\'s developing for us out, you know, as soon as we put the electronics down, so we have that moment of time, to be that conduit, to build ourselves to be present enough that when it\'s time to express that message, or to have communication, we\'re having it with the purest vibration, our hearts are really open. Our minds aren\'t scattered, all the chatter that we have going on out there, it gets to shut down, because we have a moment for ourselves to be a silence and a breathe. So we actually have a message to give. And is that the highest frequency that we can give it? Because it\'s not disturbed by everything else around us?

Brandon Handley 4:13
Yeah, no. Awesome. Yeah. And look 2.2 Right. We\'re constantly surrounded by all these, you know, devices, TV, radio, podcasts, you know, any other type of media, there\'s always some type of like electromagnetic interference, like kind of always passing through us. Even when we\'re sitting still and nothing\'s on and we\'re still sitting next to our phone. That\'s the receiver. It\'s our it\'s something\'s happening. When we bought our first house, the home inspector walked us by the microwave. And he showed us the EMP wave, right? Like how like when the microwave is on just like the the frequency the pulses that we\'re kind of like, you know, pushing out and he\'s like, you know, just just so you\'re aware They\'ll stand too close to this, they\'ll put your head on this and stare at this. So I get that right. And we want to have a clean, clear conduit and vibration, right as we send those signals out there. So John, you know what a couple of the things that I brought you in here for today, I met you through an app called pod match. And something that caught my eye was, you know, you\'ve got 22 years of martial arts and beyond. But like breathwork was something that really caught my eye and what you\'re working through and doing. Once I\'m a little bit about, like maybe your background, what you\'re into right now and how breathwork is playing into what you do.

John Goff 5:39
So let\'s talk about breath work. I take the term chi or people you\'ll find the martial arts or just Chinese medicine and of culture, energy, the Japanese call it key the Koreans call it key in Cantonese is, hey, India have prana yet have mana and Hawaii and all these names for the source energy. But the further you go back, and back and back, it\'s also meaning breath that\'s in the translation for it. Because if you can breathe it in, you can have a flow through the body. So that\'s where I started paying attention to one of the strongest power lifters do the ones who aren\'t on steroids. They know how to breathe, the guy throws the fastest pitch, he knows how to relax your breathing, the person throws the farthest football they know how to breathe, and especially through martial arts, or tai chi, and meditation, there\'s a link to breathing. Those who know how to control the breath. Whether a slow breathing, rapid breathing, they understand how to use the body, they\'re more connected as a mind body spirit. Why don\'t you go spirit body mind, reverse that because we start with the mind, then, you know, if the mind is cluttered, the body isn\'t cluttered. But if you understand how to fix his body, fill this body understand what\'s at the cellular level, or this energetic level through the breath, the body is calmer, the minds tend to be calmer, or this vessels energy or we call spirit, it\'s going to be calmer, leaving no more calmness to the mind. So I focus on that breathing as I\'ve seen the connection between people breaking bricks or doing healing work. Everything\'s based on you can\'t be tense. But when you\'re breathing, whether it\'s rising tension, just to lower the body down in this state of relaxation, you are now producing something that people say is impossible. But now science backs is all esoteric practices. You breathe, you meditate, you lower your heart rate, you take down the stress, that cortisol goes down. And of cortisol is that stress factor in the body, which is been shown to create disease, you are stopping the dysfunction of the body, you are lessening the chance to disease. So I decided to move towards breathwork even with my training, when people are working martial arts with me privately or doing healing sessions, breathe, and you have an emotion coming up. Let\'s breathe. What do you mean, breathe out, I am breathing. So I\'ll teach him how to slowly breathe, whether it\'s basic square breathing, five breaths and hold it for at least and vibrant breaths hold it like that. There\'s this constant state of needing learn how to breathe, and what it means actually breathe. So and I have I have Tourette\'s. Sometimes I Twitch, you know, things happen. I stutter a little bit. But when I take the time to slow down and breathe, it gets less. I\'ve had doctors looking at me like, whoa, like you\'re not twitching as much. You\'re calmer, but I take the time to be present. What\'s happening with John golf right now? What\'s happening with you right now? As Brandon, what\'s happened? those around us? The breath? We\'re getting animated. And we\'re also what are we breathing it for somebody else? What are we breathing again, as we\'re eating food, from the media, from what we\'re reading, every time we breathe, we\'re pulling something in. And we\'re visually breathing. We\'re auditorily breathing. All these factors is what we\'re breathing in at multiple levels. So learning how to slow down, learning how to breathe. That\'s the first stages of healing. When that trauma comes up. We\'re going to break through it. When that pain starts to come up. Are you feeling pain? Let\'s breathe, the pain might still be there physically. It might be there mentally, emotionally, you might be entangled in pain, but our ability to breathe to honestly have what\'s happening for us. And now we have a chance to be present and aware. And now the healing begins.

Brandon Handley 9:33
Yeah, that\'s awesome. I was literally just talking with my wife right before this conversation she\'d mentioned a friend of hers who was having some, you know, struggles with just kind of detaching emotions right or catching themselves being emotional in certain scenarios. And I kind of chuckled because she\'s sick of hearing me talk about breath work right now. But um, because I was like, Well, you know, if he just kind of You know, I\'m walking the dog. And I think to myself, Well, maybe if you just take a breath in and detach from that emotion just take a second, right? But we are so conditioned to think that it has to be more complicated, right? I need a medicine for that I need, I need a doctor to tell me to do this, I need somebody to tell me. You know, what I\'m supposed to do when all you need to do is take a breath, like you\'re talking about, one of the things that you\'re saying here to a couple of things that you\'re saying is like, if you take down that stress level, right, you\'re lowering the inflammation levels in your body, right, so your body becomes less and less inflamed. As you\'re lowering those cortisol, like you said, you have less chance of a disease. And it\'s something that you said that really I\'ve never thought of before is the idea of that you\'re breathing through the eyes and the ears, you want to explain that a little bit more.

John Goff 10:54
And that\'s it. Seeing something that people might think is harmful or or degrading or evil, or, you know, it\'s outside of their scope of what they believe morals and ethics to be you why somebody out on the street, they\'re homeless. And the first reaction is, oh, my God, that makes me sick, that homeless person you don\'t know the story, you don\'t know, if they\'re mentally ill, nobody knows that they\'re a war veteran, what happened to them and their life that gotten the space that they\'re in right now that they\'re homeless, you\'re seeing and then you know, you\'re living, your breath changes, your Are you some storms that happen, people can animate it, and this judgment starts coming out. And then you have somebody else on the on different side of the coin, they see them, their heart starts to melt, they feel for them, there\'s empathy there. Because the way they were taught to breathe, or respond or look at somebody else, or situation is different. So they\'re literally breathing in it, they\'re seeing it, and what they\'re pulling in as if they\'re breathing. So if I see something and I go, man, that fool that idiot, that that\'s what I\'m breathing. But I breathe in. I see that. Man. No, I wish they were in a better space. You know, I What can I do for them? If I was able to, there\'s a different level of being able to see and really see, because all reality, it\'s all perception based. And so how we\'re breathing at the moment, is also how we\'re going to see the world.

Brandon Handley 12:42
That\'s, I love that. Right? You\'re right, our breath is going to color color our vision as it were right on how we\'re breathing is going to it\'s going to impact our perspective. 100% 100% So, you know, the other pieces that you one thing that you mentioned to you know, says breathwork and other people you mentioned is doing some energy work, and you\'d mentioned that the energy you work is like kind of like next level I forget the exact language that you use, but for lack of better terminology was like a diss on Western, you know, your general run of the mill. Reiki, what would you you know, you know, so what do you mean by you know, I don\'t know, kind of like your storebrand Reiki and what\'s the difference in what you\'re doing?

John Goff 13:35
I traditional Reiki is then Mike which is also and Mike Downes did that as well. Okay, so you hear through chi, you hear Reiki and then McCarley Suey, who have the concept of myth behind that he went through a mountain is that like he had these downloads only symbols came into him and then boom, you know a he had Reiki brought back to the earth. Well, I do believe that to an extent people also miss he was already a Buddhist monk is that my he was already a martial arts master he was already a high level Chi master. He trained in mystical schools of energy work. So he was already in a place to receive higher consciousness or a deeper level of energy. Pulling wants to channeling or receiving to meet a lot of semantics. So when when he sighed is that openness cool? So I\'m just gonna bypass long story because it take Ohio when we started teaching, there\'s meditations. That isn\'t a mic. There was a different hand positions. There was breathwork than then to think of Kiko, which is Japanese form of Qigong. There was a whole system do it, and it took a while to actually learn Reiki as the actual system or the art or the ability to use it energy. The demon work with shock Because originally, I was taught and had the very good opportunity to work with some great grand masters and teachers of how Reiki was originally transferred and taught. So then, and I didn\'t know how it was taught in America, I had no clue. Even though I learned to hear from some masters, they kept the quiet, it was very hush hush. And I was like, Man, this is really weird. You guys are so secretive about this. And they said, well, what\'s the difference between secret and sacred? He said, You know, when, like, for us, the word sacred if you slow it down sacred secret, you know, we believe that, that the translations are that the accent of the word just got shifted around. So we want to keep things very, very pure. You have people do these weekend courses, Libya, two or three day period, people are walking around, I\'m a Reiki Master. And they don\'t even understand themselves who they are yet. It took me 10 years to become a Reiki Master. And that\'s after working on a lot of people. That\'s that\'s writing hypothesis on Reiki. That\'s what what my findings, what are my results? What am I see? What am I feeling? What am I hearing? What are my clients seeing during the session? What are they feeling? What are they hearing? What is the experience? And that\'s actually I want my business is called the experience. I\'ve asked people Hey, do you do raise you, they look up, they go raise you and like you said, your Reiki master. So over the years, I started asking less questions that are that are more in depth the way I was taught. And I started paying attention to the wording. And a lot of this is this new age just everybody has Reiki or re Reiki has to do with God. Reiki has never had to do anything with God. It because it was silly and ancient mystery schools can talk about other way. I don\'t know why people want to shift it over to something different than what was originally taught. And the original system. It was a hard system, it was not this easy system where you get an attunement, you little magical systems symbols go over your body and your palms are done. And then who open your eyes now. You\'re now a Reiki Master. That\'s something I\'ve really struggled with, with and communities that people doing energy work. As a Reiki has become like a McDonald\'s man. Or like in martial arts world, every martial arts class everywhere anybody can do it, or McDo Joe, they don\'t actually understand what\'s behind it. They have very sugar coated, whitewashed Reiki. And so for me, I usually don\'t even mention that I do Reiki I\'ll put it down on my bio or on some of my credentials. Otherwise, we will show up I live another gonna go through and recession for energy work energy healing, or the release has made it facilitator for being a conduit for it. Because people hear Reiki I had a Reiki session done. And then I did a session on them. Whoa, that\'s why any Reiki I\'ve ever done, or what you do is not Reiki because it\'s not the way they were taught.

Brandon Handley 17:59
Now that look, I get it right, I think that everybody wants to, I\'m thinking of an older music song, everybody wants to be a DJ, everybody wants to be able to say that they can do some some energy work, right. And these courses, a lot of people are too busy to go into the depth that\'s required to do this really well. Right. And so they want to be able to get a taste of it, they might be able to like I don\'t even know what you could really learn over the course of of a solid weekend. But they they\'re not getting the depth and breadth. Like maybe they\'ve learned how to do a wrist lock or something like that. I don\'t know, right? So they learned like one thing. Whereas like, and they don\'t know any anything about it, other than that they can do it. And that there\'s like maybe an intention and a purpose and a reason. Where do you use it? When do you use it? What is it? You know? What, what energy is this cleansing or whatever, right? Like, I don\'t know enough about it. But I mean, so what I\'m hearing you say is that they\'re not getting the depth and breadth that they need to to really do anything other than say, Hey, I spent 500 hours we can learn how to do like these two or three moves. And I got this certificate with my name. Why

John Goff 19:19
exactly ma\'am. I know it might seem harsh at times and I\'m not I\'m not trying or attempting to come to a place of judgment. It just it could be very bothersome to watch something within the energetic arts or the healing arts. I hold so true to my heart that it helped me help a lot of people that have had facilitated a lot of great work just just to look at somebody go into my music so your hands a little bit warmer somebody but what\'s the next step? What\'s next level? Because originally with the ratio when I was mentioned this people to hear the county silly did transfers of opening up energy centers for people to heal through a thing called ratio, there was no touch. And he\'s AIMSweb. A lot of people can\'t actually receive this. So he tried to make a way to get everybody to receive it. And that\'s where he was able to come up with the attunements through a, we wanna say, divine or celestial inspiration. Because, okay, I cannot lock these things in people. But it still takes time for them to learn. And then the system got Russia. And then system, we got a rush, and now you have k, you get these symbols, you take your things W and boom, you\'re open up a little bit. So they\'re legitimately open enough to do a little bit of one to 10. They\'re doing a one and they think they\'re doing 100.

Brandon Handley 20:45
Yeah, well, they don\'t like a point five, right. That mean? And, you know, I guess even even what you\'re saying there, though, too, is like, I guess even a trickle is better than zero. And it\'s and, and it\'s opening up a lot of people\'s eyes, I think, you know, there\'s the flip side of that. And just my thought process here is we\'re, as we\'re talking about this, the more people that kind of access it are getting knowledge about it, and believe in it and share it. You know, I think that\'s a good thing. One of the things that we\'re talking about a little bit here is just how widespread a lot of this is becoming. And yeah, there\'s gonna be people, I think that that don\'t reach the certain ranks that you do that you are right. And I think that that\'s maybe what some of these, maybe with some of these weekend sessions are for, right? Like, maybe it\'s so like, one out of 100 people\'s like, Alright, I\'m actually going to dedicate my life to this. Right. And I think that there\'s a bonus in that, like maybe one out of 100 does. So maybe that\'s more or less what those things are for, it\'s to help separate some of the people or at least get them familiar with it. And so that they begin to, as you said, kind of connect with that source, right, that they never connected with before and been like, wow, there is another sense and a way of energy that I hadn\'t been aware of before. And now I want to know more. Do you think that\'s fair?

John Goff 22:12
I think it\'s very fair. And if anybody gets any of the teaching that will help us ship it in the ship, it is entering into the mystery. Exactly what is the mystery? The second, you know, if I would say I always have the mystery. With all my training all my background, I still don\'t understand the mystery. Because the mystery itself keeps on going when you think you have it. Sure, there\'s a step more. So it\'s like back to those same one step one breath, one session, next session, but another session, another session, but also the personal work and the sessions on yourself. Because the mystery is so deep, you\'re never gonna get it.

Brandon Handley 22:50
Yeah, no, it\'s right. I think that that\'s the other thing about being in this space, right? Being in the spirituality space and being in like, you know, in the energy workspace and being connected is like, there\'s, there\'s really, there\'s no end and no beginning. Right? It\'s, it\'s a it\'s always around, but you can, you know, I imagine you can get better at it. Right? You can you can reach certain levels where you can do things that you certainly were not possible before. So I mean, if you don\'t mind my asking, like, what are some of the things that you\'re healing with the work that you do, if you had to throw one or two things out there? What kind of people visit you, a lot of

John Goff 23:36
people come to me, come to me with relationship trauma, due to sexual trauma. being groomed, not actually understanding the scope of what love is and what love isn\'t. You know, whether or not kids are more PG, whether it\'s Daddy did something to them, or maybe mom, dad or uncle dad or an extra neighbor did to never understand what it meant to be appropriately touched. They have body autonomy, to actually be able to express the word know, to say yes, to have that control, Terminus can a give and take with their own energetic field, what is boundaries because they didn\'t have they didn\'t have boundaries. And law. This for me has also been found with people who are suffering the sexual trauma with religious trauma.

And I\'ve taught it, it\'s, I have to not emotionally tag myself with the client, because it\'s easy project. So you know, some of the trauma that I went through that I\'ve healed from, but sometimes a client can sort of pull some of that back out, which is good for me to be able to continue any depths of healing that I have to heal for myself, to allow me to continue with my work and have more empathy towards them. But um, it can be a struggle, man, you know, because when you\'re watching somebody who they\'re on their second there\'s a fifth man or they can\'t maintain a relationship. And then they go to a different facilitator. And I know we\'re going to get into in a little bit, are they going to plant medicine ceremony, and now everybody\'s doing ecstatic dance and the foreigner bodies around, and they\'re told, release your sexual energy, your sexual beings, you\'re a sexual goddess. And the list of these words go on this jargon just really gets to me. Because the breath isn\'t about sex, this feeling of energy release isn\'t about sex. So you\'ve all sexual energy, that there\'s this ideal of what sexual is, it\'s not about having an orgasm. It\'s not about flinging your body everywhere, you know, like twitching on the floor. It is about connecting with your Source Self, and this masculine or feminine energy and learning the duality. As a man? What does it mean to cry? If I cry? I\'m weak? No, you\'re not. That\'s a softer side of yourself that allows you to heal. If I\'m a woman, I guess we got for myself. Yes, you can. So understanding what set with our sexual energy is and what it isn\'t. And that\'s something that, you know, sort of drives me crazy a little bit. When I\'m watching people come to me, and I hear their stories. Well, I went to this event, I went to this I watched I went to this group, I went to this healer. And, you know, they\'re worse than when they when they, when they originally came to them. They, you know, they were already heard, never heard any more. Because now the divorced, why are you divorced? Well, I was told to let loose and then, you know, I started, you know, doing this, and I started doing that. And then they take that home with them. Because, you know, they were told it\'s gonna be healing from to be healthy for them. They were working on body autonomy and expression. But now, they don\'t know how to express it. They weren\'t taught to express with the other self with them, or within or with the partner. It became such a high vibe energy, that they weren\'t given any place to ground. They weren\'t given any type of integration. So who are you? Okay, I have this feeling I am breathing. And now you might want to Mon, guess what, I\'ll tell my client, it\'s okay, soften it. It because it\'s it might be essential feelings. But it doesn\'t mean it has to become sexual, like you were taught, you\'re going to respond, some people are going to say, oh my god, okay, hey, let\'s breathe through it. Because that\'s not the transfer you want to have. But it\'s a transfer people are taught to have that you have to have this big mon this big thing. What about anger? What about screaming? What about crying? Well, all these things have nothing to do with sex. And that\'s a lot of the root of the trauma, what I\'m working with, people don\'t understand their own sexuality, they just have their body, they don\'t have the way to think you can\'t even shake a hand. And I\'ve had women go, Whoa, because there were, a lot of these people have been so groomed, that starting with a handshake is where the trauma was. Starting with the look, I understand the red flags. And this is what I work with. It\'s a constant, and occasionally get the other person, maybe they\'re physically abused, or maybe, you know, maybe they went through a lot about emotional instability and household. But a lot of the clients that I\'ve worked with the root cause of a lot I\'m dealing with is that they were hurt sexually, they were shamed sexually. And they don\'t understand the root of sex, when it has nothing to do with the exploitation of another.

Brandon Handley 28:45
Right, John, and so one thing we, the the audience is certainly not aware of, because I know we didn\'t touch on it. I mean, you were abused, in quite some way as a child, both physically and sexually, as I understand it. And so you know, you\'ve done a lot of work on yourself, obviously. And here, you continue to do that work on yourself. And through, you know, all these other modalities to Reiki drives, you do energy work, the breathwork martial arts, you\'ve taken all of this, and you\'re helping others to use some of these tools and modalities that you\'ve learned yourself, so that they can, you know, maybe face their traumas and work their way through it. So that\'s why these people are seeking you out. Is that right? Yes. Yeah, we did talk a little bit about so yeah, the flip side of this, you know, John, I when I when I checked out John\'s bio, and I told him today when we\'re talking, you know, as we talk a little bit about breath, work and energy work, I also noticed John had some plant medicine in there. And you heard him also already talk a little bit about how you know, this space. While I think it\'s being idealized and popularized right now and everybody\'s very excited because there\'s there\'s a lot of potential for healing, there\'s a lot of potential for deep work. There\'s a lot of potential for a lot of potential. There\'s also a lot of potential for abuse. And this isn\'t the first time John and I were talking about admission, this isn\'t the first time we\'ve seen this. And I think we saw a lot of this in the 60s, right, where it\'s like, hey, free love baby, after a couple rounds, and I guess it\'s kind of what I\'m hearing is still kind of going on, right? Like people believe that, you know, they go to one or two of these sessions, and that their minds are liberated, their bodies are liberated. What that and what this liberation means is like, I don\'t know, you know, let\'s go have sex in the woods. Let\'s, you know, let\'s, you know, let\'s say whatever we think, you know, sounds right at the time and, and write that into law. Like you were talking about people, trauma being triggered by shaking their hands or looking at them. So, you know, what are you hearing out there? And what are your thoughts on in the plant medicine world?

John Goff 31:02
I see I still use plant medicine. But I still have a plant medicine called Hot Bay. So I\'ve been mission to serve at tobacco Snop is blowing your nose. It\'s sometimes it has a purge effect. Some people might want to keep with it. But it has the ability to put you into a meditative state. It can make you a little bit spinny. A little bit woozy at times. You know, so this is what i i personally serve AMI, this hobby of medicine, this tobacco based energy and energy behind it. Or if you are wanting to read more traditional the words, the spirit of the Ruma, which is all about healing tobacco was once a healing medicine.

So what so when I serve it, it gives people a chance, you know, to really sit with themselves. And you\'ll find where\'s the pain of the body? Where\'s the emotion to clear and calm down? You know, so whether it\'s me take people taking people who have been on methods enemies, yeah, different types of drugs. If they don\'t want, they don\'t want to relapse again, they don\'t want to go back. And that\'s a no this tobacco based medicine, it takes a stress down, it gives a chance to think and be clear. And this is the you know, the few I worked with when the plant medicine is people who are emotionally unstable, they\'re not grounded. So the hop is used to ground people. So when I hear about the hobbit being used in ceremony, or people go into an Ayahuasca are going to do the frog Venom or frog poison that known as combo, and you\'re getting these things done. I hear all the other stories with it too. That Hey, I was serving a hot day. But as I was, as I was spinning, and I thought I was in a puke, the facilitator came up behind me and started touching my head, or, or his hand started going up parts of my body that I was uncomfortable with, but they\'re so linked in the medicine at the lab, like you know, they\'re spinning, they\'re buzzing, that next thing you know it, they\'re being touched. And then he told it\'s okay, you said Mr. Mike, release the trauma. And then they tried to look very healing, when they were exploiting the person that they were serving, they came to them as, as a client, that, you know, these facilitators are promoting things, while you\'re under a substance, keep everything very, very pure. You and I might come in so no matter what it is, I hear the stories being told as dogma, these ideals, when you\'re in a vulnerable state, when the emotions are flowing, or if there\'s any psychedelic substance use within the medicine that can be very healing. Your their minds are being twisted. They\'re they\'re seeing something back to you breathing in through sight, that they\'re seeing stuff, they\'re looking around. And whatever the facilitator is doing, or whatever a facilitator is allowed to do, if you\'re in a group session, part of you starts to go, this is okay. Or starts to question. Is it okay? Because the way I was taught that these things aren\'t okay. So when when is it truth? When is it trauma? Or what is it more traumatizing? Because some of you seeing is what you went through? And now you don\'t you don\'t know what\'s actually happening at the time you cook out of it. You\'ve been assaulted, something else has happened. You know, am I you know, some form of being taken advantage of is what\'s happening right now currently, a lot of these circles and these AMI said i Yes, I have 100% indoor plant medicine, when the facility facilitators are up point, when they know what they\'re doing with their tension is pure. I will applaud and say go all day. But do you know who your facilitator is? And these are some of the stories of hearing why he was with so and so. But now I will just though so, and they go, next person, the next person, these groups keep on falling apart, because he started getting a god complex. I know it all, I am the main facilitator, or I do it better than facilitator. I\'ve met facilitators, just like myself and beyond, they\'ve said, I was got a plan that said 400 times, 1000 times 10,000 times for years, they had the experience and the expertise to guide people to a better space. And some of the people, they stopped that three times, five times, and then they become so called to the medicine. Well, I\'ve been doing for three years now. And all said they\'re hosting these big groups. Well, who taught you? Well, I wasn\'t taught, I just took it a lot. They didn\'t recall what we called Guardian, the medicine. So you have a facilitator, yes, there\'ll be guarded, where they walk through there on the medicine, but they\'re walking on the medicine, they\'re playing songs in the medicine, they\'re observing on the medicine, so they actually understand the frequency of the medicine. And a lot of these people who are serving the medicine, they were never a guardian, they didn\'t understand the process of what it means to be a holder of that didn\'t really carry it, carry in their mind, carry in their heart, and be able to stay in a calm space walk, while while they themselves were on the medicine. So when I serve, like my holiday, did anybody comes to me, I also take it, I\'m on the same frequency as them, so that I\'m feeling what they\'re feeling. I\'m understanding the process they\'re going through, because we\'re both working through it together. So I can help facilitate for them, for them to be their own Shaman. And that\'s the other thing, you don\'t get a lot of people\'s like, I\'m the shaman, I\'m the healer. So I say I do healing work. Yes, I do healing work. But I will take a step deeper. I only facilitate the healing work. In the end, you have to accept the healing work, because you are your only healer, I can push energy and I can serve the medicine, how you respond to it, and what you decide to take from it. As when you become your own Shaman. And lobbies. groups aren\'t doing that. And people go to them. And now you have a cult following. And now you have meta we\'re obsessed with you. And things turn into a spiritual orgy fast.

Brandon Handley 37:21
Yeah, and like I said, Doesn\'t sound too unlike what we\'ve seen in our culture before. If we think of the hippie generation, right, just kind of how, and this is one of the things I think that to me, is what I\'m most afraid of, in regard to the RE emergence of psychedelics, right? The propensity to go in a direction that is not beneficial. Right, say, and to your point, which I wasn\'t aware of before, you know, these people, they\'re not guardians, they, they there, they, you\'re saying they\'ve taken it like three to five times, and they feel the call, and that\'s great, if you feel a calling, right? Maybe if I was feeling the calling of a doctor after you know, I got stitches three or four times, that doesn\'t mean that I should be out there, you know, given stitches, right. And I think that\'s pretty weak one, but it\'s pretty weak analogy. But you know, the gist of it is, is like, just because I\'ve gone through it a couple times. And it doesn\'t make me a master of it, right. Like even like we\'re talking beginning of this conversation. Just because I had a Reiki Master Reiki session over the weekend doesn\'t make me a master by any stretch of the imagination, no matter what that certificate says. So, you know, as a guardian, I imagined that you know, you have been a guardian of the medicine and, and gone through that process, given you know, even your vigilant stance today, what What\'s that process look like to become a guardian, like let\'s say, Look, man, maybe I really am called to it. And and I\'m done playing games, and I\'m ready to become a guardian. What\'s that process look like? John?

John Goff 39:11
Do you understand song? Do you just had a breath and then back to breathing when you got the space of you know, maybe started that five times that the 10 times and then something clicks I don\'t have to actually purge right now. Not everybody has to be go throw up physically throw up. Sometimes the Purge is you didn\'t now you didn\'t you need to go take a poop. Uh, you have to let out a different way. Now the Purge is a cry. Now. Maybe you\'re sweating. You\'re starting to learn to work with the medicine you\'re actually understanding it was like, wow, I I\'m directing it. I\'m working with it. I might just let it get takeover. To that\'s where a lot of bad things happen. You just let it take over. And there\'s so many people in a room Unless you do more private one on ones, then now you\'re really feeling it. So now that you felt that, and you see how there\'s different ways to release, and it\'s gonna say the word purge, now we\'re saying we\'re getting well, because you\'re not purging anything, you are releasing it getting well. So the purge factor gets less. And now you have to do you want to share, okay, now, you take the opportunity to share, because there\'s times that people have time to share, that\'s some facilitators will let you share that the know you\'re ready to share. Are your words healing are your words giving people some form of instruction, or maybe a different point of view that they want to thought about? That allows them to also be in a space of healing? And now, do you play any music? Do you drum at all? I wonder vibrations, can you give that that\'ll help the visit the facilitation of the medicine? So that, you know, there\'s a little starting point, and also approaching facilitator, unless you have to travel? If the close to hey, I\'d like to work the medicine more. And ask them, what would it take for me to garden the medicine with you? Or have an opportunity to sit with it upfront, sit by the altar? And while you\'re serving it, you know, can I start with serving the hot day? Because usually hoppy does you always involved in an Ayahuasca or other medicines? Because it can help facilitate deepening the medicine? Okay, no, I\'m going to be the facilitator. So no, but you can guardian, by serving the hot day in between rounds, to help people if they need to get more, or the little bit of that release to get well, then the hoppecke helped help them do it. Let\'s start there. So now you have opportunity to start serving medicine, why might they be the main medicine, your physician to guardian, some that is said to work in conjunction with the main medicine. And now you get a feel for that it might be a year might be two years. And then it comes a time, when they might say hey, we\'re gonna switch places, do you feel comfortable enough to serve the medicine, and if you do, they will teach you how to boil the medicine, you know how to bring it up, have a blessed it was needed. And the minister was in the process of grinding the medicine, of understanding each each drop each herb that deal that goes in. And now you go through the process of really learning yet, of feeling get of observing it, of observing, and that\'s basically observing it, if you can observe the medicine and work with the medicine and learn how to actually create it, and put it together. So becomes was supposed to be, you\'re never, you\'re never gonna serve it, a lot of people, you\'ll basic Hey, I did a few times document called do it. They just are already or you\'re already done. And they serve it. They never take the time to the process to make the medicine and actually feel the spirit of the medicine through creation, to where your energy is going into it. I mean, you take this little cop, you serve it up, to know what it\'s like to blow your heart into it, that you are blessing it. And now you are ready to actually give to the world. And that\'s lacking. So there\'s a short little process ideal of how to become a guardian, and then, you know, steps closer to actually surfing it.

Brandon Handley 43:25
Yeah, and I can only imagine just how much that\'s going to diminish the overall experience. If you haven\'t taken that kind of time. And gotten to that level of understanding with a medicine, then that\'s, you know, I don\'t know, imagine anybody who does something super awesome whenever you go to visit them. And the inferior product, right. And I hate to put it in product terms, but like I mean, that\'s really what it kind of boils down to, you\'re getting a you know, a cut rate experience, and maybe it is mind blowing again, and I\'m not saying like, you know, a shitty experience. Well, you know, actually should experience would suck, right? Like, I mean, if you\'re, if you\'re going to this whole thing turns into like some drug induced orgy. You\'re not really doing yourself a service, and the people are facilitating something like that. It\'s really a terrible kind of a hack job.

John Goff 44:19
Yes.

Brandon Handley 44:23
Yeah. So I mean, you know, I think this conversation has been great though, because, you know, most of the times here we are right now, there\'s a lot of really good news, John going on about there about, you know, a lot of plant medicine, the exposure, a lot of people getting exposed to it. But I think that it\'s really important to understand that the people who are going to these, like you had said that they do their research, so you know, what kind of experience can they expect? What is the lineage of their facilitator who taught them you know, what\'s the you mentioned? Like the integration work, right? You know, what\'s that integration work gonna look like? You know, Are you even ready for it? Because what if you\'re already emotionally unstable? What if you\'re already in a trauma space? There\'s not going to be any benefit. As a matter of fact, that could make things worse for you, as you\'ve mentioned, if you don\'t do some of this work up front, and if you\'re not in the right mental state, and, you know, to top it all off, it\'s facilitated poorly. Yeah, right. Yeah, so I think those are all like, that. That\'s all like, you know, that\'s honestly, like, you know, for the listeners, I think that that\'s somebody, that\'s something you should really, you know, check into, for sure, for sure. Well, John, you know, I really appreciate you being on today. Usually, I\'d like to ask a couple questions. If you don\'t, unless you had anything else that you wanted to kind of mention around these couple topics, I had a couple other leftover questions for you. And we can start dialing it down. But

John Goff 45:53
I would like to, you know, just to add in, because we\'re ending with with a partner integration. If a person does side and you\'ve got through a scenario now are going to go to any type of ceremony that\'s plant medicine based. Please ask them facilitators ahead of time, what integration will look like? Can you get a hold of them? Or is it a one time deal and get the comeback? Because, you know, sometimes it\'s medicine can be in your system for two days or up to a week, and it\'s still working through you and you go home, you don\'t know what to read or not to read? What listened to or not listen to you? Or how to listen to yourself? Can you get a hold of them? Hey, I\'m struggling, I this really hard for me? Will they be there for you? Or do they expect you to be there for yourself. And if you\'ve never had these experiences before it can harm you, it can be a scary thing. And I don\'t want you or anybody else to, to have a mental break. Or to have such a spiritual overwhelm, that you become lost in the medicine. This medicine is beautiful, it can help you it can serve you. But it can also work against you if you don\'t have the right setting for it to be there for you. So just when it comes to integration, please be very vigilant in asking the right questions. Because this can either save your life and help you move forward in a deeply a girl spirituality, or can be taken to a very dark places darker than what you\'re already in.

Brandon Handley 47:21
That\'s fair, right? And super fair. And really, that is a great question, right? What is this ongoing support look like? Right, I leave your situation I leave your ceremony. It\'s been great. I\'ve personally never done Ayahuasca or had an experience like that. So I have no idea what to, you know, what to expect when when I leave a ceremony like that. And if it\'s going to be in my system, and you know, I\'m still feeling the effects of this plant medicine days later. Without knowing that right, I might freak out a little bit. Right. So I need to know that there\'s going to be some kind of ongoing support for me in that scenario, right? Because I honestly, it\'s first I\'ve ever heard heard of kind of heard of that, right? So, again, something really important that I think is being left out of a lot of conversations is exactly what you said that this, this could be in your system for days or up to a week later. And you could have some experiences, and you\'re going to want to know what what that support looks like. And to me, again, if this is if I\'m entering into this plant medicine world without an experience like it before, and this support isn\'t offered, I\'d probably run away quite quite honestly. Right. So great, great, great. Great suggestion to point that out. So thank you, John. So, John, I like to I always like to ask a few questions, right? I look at this podcast as a little bit of like a, you know, spiritual speed dating show, right? You know, somebody on the other line is looking for their next. I don\'t know, spiritual date, right? They\'re looking for me, the next spiritual mentors is too many people like to hop around, and that\'s okay. They\'re seeking, right? So, in that, in that context, I would say, hey, spiritual bachelors, number one. Let\'s see. Let\'s see, what does it mean to live in the present moment,

John Goff 49:25
to be able to see what\'s around you to know what\'s around you. You know, it could be the smile of you know, of your wife. It could be the person sitting at a restaurant with their head down, to notice what it actually means to to be here right now. And in observance, to truly be in a reverence for ourselves and humanity. What\'s what\'s encompassing our soul? What are we exposed to? And then what are we exposing ourselves to? To actually be so to be right here right now, to be able to look around and see but see with a true I see if our spiritualize so that we can actually be in a space of being something for ourselves and other people. That\'s the biggest thing right now be in the president BSU must be in observance.

Brandon Handley 50:17
That\'s great, right? Yeah, look, I agree, you got to, you know, just just try and be there right now with it all relax a little bit and spend some time in that space. Thanks for that answer, John. What else we got here? Well, what would you say is preventing people from living to their full potential John, fear,

John Goff 50:37
fear dogma. I want to be a doctor. So maybe due to my cultural, religious upbringing, like, that\'s out of the books for me. Because, you know, we fall into the trap of Have you become a doctor, that, you know, if you\'re going to be very scientific, you\'re going to be very medical. And that goes against everything you believe, spiritually, religiously. That\'s just a sort of shortlands on that one. Fear of actually, something more than ourselves. Because we were taught that we cannot be something hindered us something, some traumatic moment that we went, Whoa, stop right now. I can\'t go any further. Because they\'re also identifying with the story. If I stop living in this story, I\'m not responsible, I\'m now accountable for everything I do from here on out. So if they\'re in a story, and they\'re stuck, and that\'s gonna be a big one, what happens when I quit identifying with what I believe to be me, and I truly started with a potential of what I really am, or what I can\'t be the second I here\'s a work, you\'re gonna hate. A lot of hate when I say it. Choice. The second you choose for you, hey, I choose and right now I am willing to change, I willing to move forward, I am done. The story is eliminated. No more fear no more this no more of that. And I am present in the now. Whoa, now you\'re truly starting to wake yourself up.

Brandon Handley 52:11
Yeah, hey, look, John 100%. I had a conversation, maybe last week and the guests and I, you know, kind of agreed on exactly what you\'re saying right? Now, choice is so powerful, it may be one of the most powerful things that that occurs for you in this journey. And when you and I are talking about choice, we\'re not talking about do you want ketchup with that? We\'re talking about, you know, a conscious choice that, you know, could, you know, radically alter your life. And it could, it could, it could be a super small choice. But once you and even that super small choice is going to radically alter your life, because it\'s when you realize the decision that you just made in this moment, was different from any other that you\'ve made in your life. And you did it on purpose and alignment with intention and all that other stuff, right. So I think that\'s the kind of choice that you\'re talking about. And that\'s the type of choice that when you when you make that choice, you will feel it in your body. And you will realize what what we\'re talking about the power of choice, right?

John Goff 53:30
Sort of honorable listeners to understand the aspects of healing, from the physical abuse, to the sexual abuse, to bad relationships that I experienced. And you know that there was a point where I wasn\'t do healing work anymore. I know, years ago, I didn\'t teach martial arts. I was hitting a breaking point. And I was popping pills. I was drinking, I was masking my own pain. And I had a talk with one of my old teachers, we reconnected and he\'s like John said, I\'m not trying to give you a big head. You\'re really good at what you do. The world needs. It was last time you you needed yourself and either Whoa. I do need myself. It was something as simple as Do you remember what it\'s like to need yourself to be there for yourself? Because nobody\'s going to be there for you 100% of the time. And when nobody\'s there, can you show up for yourself? I made the choice. I would cold turkey. Not everybody can do it. I medically and psychologically don\'t recommend it. I\'m just letting people see the power choice. I took on alcohol. I ducked down the drain. I throw the pills away. I made a choice and I never went back.

Brandon Handley 54:43
Down now that looks right. That\'s a I think that that\'s it to where you realize that just like you said, you need you. You need you for yourself more than anybody else does. And to show up for yourself as again another powerful tool is John. Thank you, man. so much for being on here today. Where can I send people to find out more about you and connect with you?

John Goff 55:05
Doctor speak.com You can find me through that social media Facebook, through the experience, and Instagram. I\'m also on John golf underscore the experience. And you can also find me at beyond underscore conventional healings on Instagram too.

Brandon Handley 55:25
Awesome. John, thanks so much for being on today. I

Intro Guy 55:29
really hope you enjoyed this episode of the spiritual dove podcast. Stay connected with us directly through spiritual dove.co. You can also join the discussion on Facebook, spiritual and Instagram at spiritual underscore Joe. If you would like to speak with us, send us an email to Brandon at spiritual dove.co And as always, thank you for cultivating your mindset and creating a better reality. This includes the most thought provoking part of your day. Don\'t forget to like and subscribe to stay fully up to date. Until next time, be kind to yourself and trust your intuition

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