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Published: Sept. 6, 2020, 5:39 a.m.

When you are going through an awakening, sometimes it can feel like everything is going off the rails!

That's how it was with me, and I was lucky enough to come across an amazing spiritual life coach, Christian Wiese.

Ever since Christian helped me along the way, we have been in communication.

Take a listen to find out how you may be able to practically apply spiritual wisdom, even if you are in the midst of a very high-level financial group!

Connect with Christian on Facebook

Also, should you be interested in his books check them out here:

Brandon Handley 0:00

Two, one. Hey there spiritual dope. Brandon Handley here today. And as we continue to explore how we can apply spirituality in our everyday lives, businesses, and whatever it is we want to do. I have with me today, author and spiritual coach, my good friend, Christian M. Weiss, and he is a, he's an author, spiritual coach. But he didn't he wasn't always in the space. In 2008, he was working in the professional finance field, with a PhD in finance and as a freshly minted dad. And working in this market. He'd been introduced to a wonderful world of magic, healing and love. And he finally left the financial industry and decided to work today as an author, educator, a spiritual life coach, and he's on a mission to share the gospel of the capitalized way and to help other spiritual Travelers awaken to their path. Christian, thank you so much for joining us today.

Christian Wiese 1:05

Thank you for having me. Being here.

Brandon Handley 1:08

Yes, yeah, well, so first, you know, here's people people may not have followed me since the beginning and that's okay. So if you're just tuning into any of my podcasts for the first time, Christian I first met years ago now, when I was doing a podcast called fatherhood for the rest of us and I had reached out to fathers who had experience and kind of a spiritual awakening and Christian is the only one who raised his hand. He has lived to tell the tale so before and thank you for that. And we've had I think, a great friendship since then we actually had to meet in person last year. That was a very What do they call that? You know, synchronous, synchronous synchronicity

Christian Wiese 1:52

secret? Thanks, Jerry. Yeah, for sure.

Brandon Handley 1:54

Yeah, yeah, we that was just so random how that happened. And to me that just showed the universe opening up, right?

Unknown Speaker 2:02

That's right. Um,

Brandon Handley 2:04

what I like to start this off with Christian as a little bit of how you and I are conduits for creative energy, right? That's right. And you and I are talking to share a message with somebody who's listening to the podcast today. What What do you think that that person needs to hear today?

Christian Wiese 2:26

Well, I think the main message is life is fun. There's so much creativity in life. And we spent so much time thinking about it and thinking what we want and what we should get, and we sometimes overlook what we have and what we're getting every day and excitement and I think so again, just a little bit of background. I kind of have always been interested in spirituality. But I was in the middle of my career, the two boys had just been born. Suddenly there was that moment, which you also experienced, where suddenly you said, Wow, what's happening here in this incredible app to tell other people about it. And then I literally spent seven years doing both very similar what you're doing right now, in the day, kind of hanging out with some very smart people in the financial industry and kind of testing my spiritual theories. And then that night writing about it and writing books, and we're talking today about the second book, which I think is is really written for people like you and your, your viewers, because it makes a case that spirituality is not some sort of philosophy that we practice on Sunday. Spirituality is something that we do everyday and also at work. And for seven years. I literally tested my theories and they work, we can really be incredibly creative, connected. We can have a lot of fun doing kind of spirituality and living.

Brandon Handley 4:05

Now 100% I love it. I enjoyed the book. And, you know, right when I read the review, I'd already started reading the book. But when I read the review on the back here of the endorsement by Carl Bozeman, and this book is intended to kind of pick up before you go to sleep and just have a quick read like small short stories, right? And, you know, here's the book in my hand, thanks for shooting it over. Appreciate you sending. So the way of the Meister and it gives you some time to pause and reflect and also see how somebody such as yourself who had a PhD in it was it was at finance that she had a PhD in economics, economics. Oh my god, right. I mean, that's the that's the last place. Most people are going to be looking for a virtual coach. Right, or, or spiritual birthing at that, right? That's

Christian Wiese 4:55

right. And that often happens and I think it's really important to stress it. We always say, if you are spiritual, be on the right or be on the left, whatever your favorite direction is. But often in life, instead of being on the right, we're actually on the left. And it's extreme contrast between the two that then gets you that, that breaks through. And that's, I think, by work in the conflicts at work in the context of family and all that. It's sometimes an opportunity to opportunity to stop and say, Hey, what's going on here? What can I learn from this conflict? And the way I would put economics, economics is a science of scarcity. scarcity, the main assumption is you don't have but you want the only one right Right, right. Increase your utility and your income as your poor. Yes, the main message of spirituality is abundance. We live in an abundant world. We deserve to live in a world and that I think we need spiritual life coaches like you to remind us of that premise and we should work towards it

Brandon Handley 6:10

was like, it's like you said, Christian when you when you stop to look at what you have versus what's missing. That's right, right is doo doo doo. I feel like there's a space for an economic approach that says, hey, we actually have quite a bit Do you think I mean, I mean so look, let's not laugh too hard at this because we had, you know the Science of Happiness to psychology. You know, so, which was laughed out at the beginning, right? I'm reminded of I've listened to this guy, Robin. Oh, gosh, his last name Sharma. Right. And one of his lines is they laughed at all the great ones at first, right. So is there do you feel like is that would could we apply economy you know economics to an abundant sides. Cuz like you said, we've been focused so much on the scarcity economy. Is there an abundance economy?

Christian Wiese 7:08

Absolutely. Economics just needs a rebranding, which is

Unknown Speaker 7:13

exactly right.

Christian Wiese 7:14

I mean, we should call it the science of abundance. And there's a joke that I was told whether, whether it's supposedly true at all, no. But somebody taught at Harvard, and gave the idea of to the utility function and the income line and that it keeps growing and expanding to the right. And that is kind of our mission in life. And there was one guy from the Middle East, supposedly a crown prince. And he said, I'm what happens to the picture, if you don't have any income constraints. And of course, everybody laughed. You know, he was a prince, he had limitless resources, but it's actually a very good point is in economics, that certain bliss point where you're having more income is not the issue at all. It's about having more meaning. And I do think, to a large extent, the spiritual journey is just about awakening to what you truly want. You know, we initially think it's so much about wealth and status and reputation. And then we realized, no, no, it's about love. It's about meaning. It's about the ability to create an Express. And when you go down that path, it's very easy to be very fulfilled and happy, abundant life.

Brandon Handley 8:30

It is, is once you learn about it.

Christian Wiese 8:37

That's right.

Brandon Handley 8:38

Right. So, you know, it's really interesting. My wife just quit her job after being there for 23 years. And she's terrified because she was taught to go get a job and work and stay there for for your entire life. And that was the idea. And since she married me that was her own fault. The You know what? learning this stuff that like, wow, we, you know, you always hear about you know, don't put your don't put your ladder up against the wrong wall. That's right, right you know, we we worked for money, right and income versus working for or towards meaning or towards a beautiful life right? You know, we want we want the things we want the experiences we want I love this bliss point that you bring up. But it's once you've learned that prod and nine then you have to learn how to apply it, which is what you know, I think I've done taking the concept and applied it in life and found it to be true. You know, I think of one of your stories in the book. And actually kind of I was actually telling the story last night at dinner about how you would come up with theories that seemed like they would be sure shots let's talk a little bit about like, you know, working in the economy and you're working for I'm guessing people that had a lot of money and they trusted you, with your, you know, with your doctorate in this field to explore and give sounds strategies, right. So tell us a little bit about, like, what that looked like and what some of the outcomes were.

Christian Wiese 10:17

Um, so when I started out I was actually very similar to your vise Korea. I was there for I think, 22 years. I'm originally from Germany, I arrived in 1990. I went to Brown University, got my PhD there. And then literally, just after five years, moved one hour north to Boston from Providence to Boston and started out there. And I started out as an economist, you know, I had to learn, you know what finance is really all about. But, you know, after a while, I got the hang of it, and you can realize that finance to a large extent, yes, it's about knowing what will happen tomorrow. Extensive thoughts about psychology, human psychology, and I love that stuff. You know the the being in the pressure point and people say no, you have it all wrong. Now's the time to be actually that this year was perfect. Everybody said run for the hills run for the hills. And the moment they did that was exactly the moment that the Gnostics started taking off, right? It's all it's all psychology and you have to get a feel for it. So what in the end brought the, the the spark when you kind of awoke to something different? I can't tell. But what I can tell is that I had a very interesting psychological journey they had that place because part of the process of you know, doing this kind of spirituality for a few years is to realize that we kind of live in our head. You know, there are certain stories that we want to be nice to each other. We want to be loved. You're going to get, and there's a lot of heads, the art sometimes says something very different. And what I enjoyed in the pressure cooker environment is to kind of test and also learn. And I kind of went into two directions. And I think they're very powerful. And I think you as a coach really can breakfast that there was one this spiritual dimension where I learned cooperation and trust is so powerful if you work with a group of people and you guys trust each other. magic happens, but also learned and there was a second aspect something about myself, I had not understood how competitive I really was. And you know, we spreadsheet people will tell us Oh, we are so nice and so relaxed. But when tell people to tell you, you're full of it, you suddenly get you know, I'll show you and that's a very human reaction and I love isn't playing with both balls on the one hand showing the magic of connection tivity and caring for each other as I put it, but on the other end, also realizing, you know what, you're telling yourself stories, you're as human as everybody else. And I think that's really the the the potency of a coach to help people with that struggle because we shouldn't live in lala land, we should live in the real world, where not everything is about love. And you know, and being so serene and uncaring.

Brandon Handley 13:29

Yeah, yeah. I mean, look, that's it. That's a you know, that's, that's great. And it's an ideal it kind of world and I don't think that it's, I wouldn't say that it's impossible, but the likelihood of seeing it, and then would you really want to live it? That's another question like, yeah, that's, that's another question. And I'm reminded of, you know, at least hearing this kind of first from Alan Watts, right. It's kind of like stew you got to season it just enough. There's got to be enough, you know, kind of flavor and Taste where it's not so bland. So if we have all this, you know, love peace and serenity all the time, it's gonna be real boring. I'm sorry, right? We're not gonna, we're not going to be able to experience we're not going to even notice if we have an upper down, right? I mean, you know, I'm not saying hey, let's invite some drama. But if you don't have any drama, you will go to your head and you will create some it's just human. So you know, I love that you said that because that that is the true premise two is spiritual dope, right. So this is the this program this podcast and courseware whatever gets created out of this is like, it's not all it is a huge percentage of peace, love and light, but there's also some, you know, we've got to go through some. We've got to go through some seasons of our lives to have a fully rounded experience. That's right, right.

Christian Wiese 15:02

And something. So the way optimized, I think is perfect for this setup, because I think it speaks to the experience that many people go through. Should I be in this profession? Should I not? Am I really expressing myself creatively as I should? On the other hand, there are financial constraints. Can I really make it right now on my own? Or should I also have, you know, a secure income stream? Those are all issues we have to deal with. But the person

Brandon Handley 15:28

just has to pick that apart for right now. Right? Yeah. For everybody who's who's chased the secure income stream and the secure way of life. I think that COVID has been a true disrupter in continuing along that, that path, right. That's right. And, and also, I kind of want to just loop back to when you were, you know, understanding, you know, yes, the cooperative and trust support, right, you know, your groups and creating that and finding that also understanding your competitiveness, but you also have illustrated how you you come up with some theories that will seem bulletproof. Write that on paper, and in theory should be working and they would flop and then you would say, all right, well, here's, here's something that I'm going to throw out there. I don't think much of it. And that's the one that takes off. Right? Play with me really this then right? So I'll play let's play. Let's play like kind of spiritual devil devil's advocate type. Okay. So with the one you had these great expectations, you were kind of attached to an expectation of the one that you thought would work right there was pressure on it to work in the way that you thought that it was supposed to work. And so there was there was like a focus on it. Versus the one that you came up with great. I would say almost ease and you let it go. And you said you know what, fine, let it go. Let's Let's the worst that could happen. Right. And that's the one that you did with ease that it came in and flowed. Yes. Or to see it that way.

Christian Wiese 17:08

I think it's a very important point. Actually, that was the direction I wanted to go in my original comment. The main message is, and it's a very tough one, because we have been programmed for four decades in the education system to do exactly the opposite. But the main message of spirituality is, get out of your head. Look at what lie and look at the amazing abundance that life has to offer. And especially when it goes in a direction that you didn't anticipate. That's the time to be excited, because you can actually learn something. Right? And that was really my spiritual experience, experience and breakthrough to realize this is just a voice. It is not us. It's just a voice. Sometimes it has something interesting to say sometimes not. But there's an authority for you. On the voice in the head and that is all to spirituality.

Brandon Handley 18:03

Now fair enough. One second Chris, I'm gonna go ask my kids to go move. So the letting go right and getting out of your way. And the aspect of of us trying to apply direction, right? mentally, mentally direction versus Heart, heart feel it feeling it forward, right? That's right, feeling it forward. Well, all right. How do you do that?

Christian Wiese 18:36

Well, that's really exciting stuff happens it is we are not independent of our life. The life that we experience the people we bump into, I mean, I am always messenger it's just so apparent. person one context me person to contact me five minutes later, person one and person two are in my life connected. So I see Just even though they have no idea what's going on, I can literally see the strings. Right. So with those modern technologies, we actually can see almost how life operates. Yeah.

Brandon Handley 19:11

Yeah, yeah,

Christian Wiese 19:12

I think that's a great thing too, that that gets you out of the head. And but again, I would say is always know on which level you work. Because I think you and I do. We do different things to work as a spiritual life coach, you help people with their career choices with their personal choices, right. The next level that I'm interested in this kind of what is that no self experience. There is no self, it's just your part of life. You are there no thoughts, just the no self. I mean, that's what the you know, well, the gurus talk about it's an exciting, almost philosophy or experience, but it doesn't help so much. The guy who has those has just two newborn children and has a little make a living. Right? That's where you come in. Sure. Yeah, you know, it's such a challenge to

Brandon Handley 20:09

fall into this space, I guess it's kind of the best way to say it to to, to open once you've opened up to the spiritual self, right? Or the your spirituality, your spiritual being. How do you reconcile that? Right? How do you integrate that? And that's, that's a huge challenge.

Christian Wiese 20:28

It's a challenge, but it's also a huge opportunity because

Brandon Handley 20:31

so much for sure, listen to your your speaking a new language, you're learning a whole new way of being. So you cannot. So it's kind of like the Buddha and the and the, you know, the Rosebud, right, flower bud, you can't squeeze that right. It's expected to bloom so you got to you've got to nurture it, understand it and follow it. You know, I still remember when people were telling me you got to trust in the process before I had ever experienced the process. Right? So there's trust in the process, which is kind of a faith in this, this possible way of being that you, you simply you can't convey it in

Christian Wiese 21:17

words. That's right. You cannot write but what we can convey is how much fun it is. That synchronicity is something that we discussed in our last talk, right? I think you are also an experiencer Can you pronounce it Suresh polities scientists, so it's either the numbers or just the human connections. And the the first experience is so much fun, you understand it to gain it's no longer the, you know, it's it's all about life or death. It's literally again, you making a mistake, and you hear somebody laughing in the background. Ha ha ha you messed this one up.

Get ready not that serious,

Brandon Handley 22:02

right? Well, you know, I, I poke fun at that too because the word light is in enlightenment. That's right, right. So how can we come at this from a sense of it's heavy, hard, steady work. But it's also meant to kind of lighten the load, right?

Christian Wiese 22:24

We are creators. I mean, it just stink up an entrepreneur or the guy who inventing or an Albert Einstein every day when they got up, they were all smiles. I can't wait to see what I create today. But I think that that experience, I think

Brandon Handley 22:40

that that's a great, you know, how can somebody applied themselves in that manner? Today right now, regardless of you know, I'm in a nine to five, right? How do I apply that principle of I am a creator of Wherever I am, that might not

Christian Wiese 22:56

be the thing that you actually do, which hopefully gets your meaning but There's also the interaction with the people, you know, very much like I described as my messenger experience, you suddenly bump into that person and the person says something which the person never says, exactly that kind of word that resonates with you, because you read it yesterday in a book, and you suddenly start and this is really important. I don't know how. Yeah, this is the process. And it's a lot of fun. And everybody can experience even in a in a workplace that they consider boring. It's literally the lightest streaming in and you can experience it anywhere. But on the other hand, I understand sometimes you are forced in a new direction. And I give myself as an example, I actually had plans to be at a job until today 2020 because I'd always wanted to start with a friend, a meditation center and she just wasn't ready. So For me, that jump came two years ahead of time because there were changes at work and it just didn't work for me anymore. So suddenly a new situation comes and for a couple of years, I was a little bit bored. I have to say, Yes, I was writing books, and I was working with people, but there was always a feeling. You know, I wish I had three more hours of actual creative work to do because only so much spirituality I can do. But guess what, that was a very, very spiritual experience where I really went to the next level, understanding better about my own drive above my own cross patience above my own limits. And that's part of life. You have to if you're really interested in spirituality, and that's where the life coach starts differing from the spiritual coach. The Life Coach job is to make sure that that person is successful in the way that they want. Creating love, whatever it is that they want versus friendship quotes gets a little arrogant says, Whatever happens to you, you will learn a lot. For sure it's you know, I don't know, sometimes you have to build something and then afterwards you can have that arrogant perspective. Do you understand which direction I'm going?

Unknown Speaker 25:21

Now go ahead and give me a little more on that.

Christian Wiese 25:23

Okay, so I just saw the psychologist, the young cago stuff young, I think put it very well. He says the first half of our life journey, we develop the self.

The second half, you actually

Brandon Handley 25:40

had I had that I actually had that one.

Christian Wiese 25:42

I had that as a quote. And in the second half of the life journey, we start letting go, right. So as the Buddha which puts it over everybody else, but if you die before you die, felt kind of disappears. This integrates,

Brandon Handley 25:58

right yeah, not lost. Uh, you know, I never, you know, I've definitely always said, This ease but I'd never done this integrate. Right. Which, you know, right yeah, that explains kind of a lot.

Christian Wiese 26:19

Well, I feel bad it was like so let's take the example of when you bump into your colleague when that person says what she never says just out of the blue uses a ratchet she never used the point it's exactly the birth if you just read in that meaningful book at night, right? everything for you stops right just stared her. There are no thoughts. There is just that feeling of I can't wait to see where this is. This is going. So you see this is just an example of the self disintegrate the the knowledge that everybody talks about. You're so excited to be in the moment that innocence us Then, as an identity kind of get integrated into colleagues in the story in what's about to come. That's really the kind of, you know, living now. So it's not that you as a person disappeared, it's just that you literally just become out of it

Brandon Handley 27:16

when you become kind of the observer. Is that what you're saying? Yeah, you kind of

Christian Wiese 27:21

the actor, the everything.

Brandon Handley 27:24

And you're seeing all that at the same time. You're seeing it all at the same time. Is that what you're saying? That's

Christian Wiese 27:28

right. Yeah. And many people have thought experiences, it's just they never put in a spiritual meaning to answer just say, Wow, that was Mind blown. Yeah, sure. Sure.

Brandon Handley 27:41

I think I think that that's what you and or I or even religion provides is this kind of framework for when it does happen? That's right. Right. So because there's going to be this whole building of the ego to Carl Jung talking about that you're talking about there where you're going Go your whole life and it's gonna seem to fit everybody else's expectations, patterns, societal norms, but then there's going to be this threshold that you cross over, where you disintegrate with that identity of the self and you recognize the connectedness. That's right to everything. That's right. And if you don't know, this is where I think this is where I'm gonna play big is there's a bunch of over 33 million in the United States, right? last census not this last one. They don't claim any religion, right? So they don't have a framework for when this happens to them. That's right. So it's like, hey, it's okay. That's right. let's let's let's a let's figure out kind of, what's your what's your what's your background? And let's, let's steer you to a couple stories that reflect exactly where you are. Right.

Christian Wiese 28:52

Yeah, but more than that, if I could add on that, because I really think it's important for people like you and I and your viewers. Think of that. See? You that was brainwashed by his father mother to be somebody, you know, go to Harvard. Yeah, buddy, no be member of that golf club or whatever it is. And then you meet all those competitive people and you just put all your identity and building profits. And then there comes that moment and God forbid anybody, if it happens to anybody, but let's say the daughter certainly gets cancer. Can you just suddenly say, Whoa, I couldn't care less what the profit statement is, I need to make sure that my daughter is okay and that she gets healthy again, so that those life changing moments, but he didn't say, well, it's no longer about profit, but what is it about? And that I think is the opportunity to really have the people in the important places, CEOs, the upper management, the inventors creators, that they have that guidance of You know, moving towards a new model? Yeah. And I think if we if we get a few of those people, amazing change.

Brandon Handley 30:08

What's your what's your vision of a new model?

Christian Wiese 30:11

quantum new model is just the understanding that the economic model of scarcity is gone. That we live in a world of abundance that everybody has to find it and that's a spiritual journey because we have to start overriding the voices of our parents, the voices of society, the voices of our spouse, tables, Rosa, that's amazing thing. It's not an any spiritual folks always say us versus them. It's not true, or the unconscious person if it wasn't for the unconscious person.

It's not true, right?

Brandon Handley 30:45

We have growing Why is that not true? Let's Let's hit on. Why is that not true?

Christian Wiese 30:49

Well, it can be true in the sense that people get so annoying that we just say I have to leave. And then they're part of the process, but often, it is our own. As I said to you, my spiritual experience was for the last two years where I didn't have as much to do as, as I used to when I did exactly what you were doing having my nine to five job and then at night, you know, working streamer hours to get my books out, I suddenly realize you know, there is an inner void that I had to face. And yes, I was so cool at my work and I was so cool as a life coach and so cool in my writing, but you know what that coolness means something to me. And that's not I don't want people to project to me that's, that's not it. I have to find a way to to to face it in a void and of course the underdog it'll say meditation. You go invert, you discover the light within. The first part of the journey is we see the light without the second part of the journey is we discover the light within minutes. It's really not rocket science. So without It happens to everyone.

Brandon Handley 32:01

Well, you know, and but but it you know, it's still again, I think until you begin the journey until you kind of start to experience. It's not part of your peripheral, right? It's not it's not, it's not something that you're willing to accept. Yeah, that's right. I, you know, like I said to you earlier, I'm working on my, on some of my information, right? For kind of describing, because it's, this is a I'm building it as I go. But what does it say? I said, you know, spirituality. So this, you know, look, I'm, I'm talking to my generation, right? Mm hmm. But also, spirituality for the person that couldn't give a shit about it until now.

Unknown Speaker 32:46

Right, because,

Brandon Handley 32:48

until you until until you have had an experience, you're not going to be triggered to seek more and seek harder because you have had That experience.

Christian Wiese 33:01

I think those people are incredibly powerful and incredibly potent, because I do see a little problem as those very spiritual guys. Again live in their own head. Yeah, oh, you have to be a vegetarian. All you have to do all you have to do that, by the way, I am a vegetarian at moral grounds, but I eat a burger over the veggie burger. I do not feel any difference. However, on the moral ground, I'd say, yeah, it's not nice what we do for our animals. But the thing is, if you just live in your you have to feel it. If you just live in your head, you will always play those us versus them games and they're always different, us versus them never because the only insight of spirituality is we are all one. The critical voice that confronts us is us speaking to ourselves. We have to just find a way to either say I don't want to deal with her right now going a different direction not to say There must be a way how we can integrate our views because we have one. Right,

Brandon Handley 34:08

right right now. And I love that. I think it was for me to work with a particular group where I understood about, you know, cooperation and trust and supporting each other. And just like you were saying earlier, I feel like that's a place where, if you can't be or don't feel comfortable with being vocal about spirituality, you can apply spirituality. Would you say that that's true?

Christian Wiese 34:38

And don't talk about it, that the other mistake that the spiritual books say, they go out to the public and say, Oh, you just don't know the power of communication, the power of connectivity, the power of caring, don't say a word Just do it. Right. Because when you say something, the other person will say, Well, what a loony but the moment when you actually do it, The other person will take notice. And I do think there is incredible I mean, when it comes to the power of actually, I think it's a course in miracles that says creation is communication, which I think in our modern world is incredibly important because in a sense, it's all especially what you do. It's all about communication, connectivity, creative, creativity, caring for each other. So I had in the book, the four C's, as I called it, I think that that all applies for the modern society, especially the stuff that you're doing. And if you start using the experiment, I'm not an ego. Let me see if I think that the other guy ain't so bad. If I start with a premise, let me see what happened. In next day. The guy starts You know, taking the foreign advantages, okay, Soviet experiment wasn't, wasn't so successful. But in my experience, I did it for seven years. It worked like a charm. But it was a psychological experience. You felt the fear the other person felt the fear the getting together is a process. It doesn't happen overnight. But when you start out with that process, let me experiment those very powerful themes. A you will be successful. But if you do it on a higher level, if a CEO start saying, you know what we are all, we all talk the talk, but we don't walk the walk, right? We all say all we can take care of each other. But at the end of the day, whoever brings in the most money is the guy who gets promoted and whoever doesn't bring in the most money as a problem, right? Well, that's a very spiritual because it might be that this is support person, a blue guy who actually carries himself A team, right? But you only reward the guy who brings in the money. Sure. So if you really start with the premise, we are one unit. Let's take care of each other. Let's build something together. Let's have an incentive structure that really rewards true connectivity and trusting each other. I do think operations can go very far. Because when you really believe in the in the company you're working for you go out of your way to deliver when you think Well, my boss is just telling stories, and he doesn't care for me at all. And the moment when things don't go my way out the out of the door. You will not deliver the same goods that you do and I think it's a very powerful

Brandon Handley 37:48

100% hundred percent like, you know, I just left one company not too long ago, and that was the feel you nothing ever felt safe and secure. Right? Not for For top performers or bottom performers, nobody. So how are you going to perform on a consistent basis in that environment? versus where I'm at now, um, similar environment of me similar similar type of work. But, you know, like I said, the, from the top down, they're leading with spirituality, and they mean it. It's very powerful. It's also challenging to wrap my head around some of it, you know, because I'm just grown up with this other environment, right? So you've grown up in this other environment, you're like, Okay, well, you've got to adapt and somewhat rapidly, but it seems like what is this? So just going through a new wardrobe right here, you gotta try on these.

Christian Wiese 38:47

For anybody who has been trained by the modern Western model. You know, tough guys finish first. nice guys finish last and similar statements. America, it shouldn't happen. But the model that we are living, the Western society is living and the eastern guys are a little different. They're smarter than us. They have, they have a little bit more of that idea of oneness. And the Europeans are somewhere in the middle. So I know a little bit about it, because at work, I was covering Japan, which is really at the other extreme of the, of the spectrum. I live. I've spent now most of my life in the US, but I grew up in Germany. So I actually felt that I experienced was all three models, Europe, somewhere in between the Americans very much about the individual, and the Asians, the Chinese, the Japanese kind of really believing in the power of one, right. Every model has its strengths and advantages. I guess if you play football, you should believe in the proper cause. If you play golf, you should you should believe in the power of the individual. But if you're on a company, maybe some of the spiritual concept people make you a lot of money.

Brandon Handley 40:02

Yeah, no, no 100%. You know, just just again, going back to the point like when you show your teammates, you know, cooperation and you give them trust and you support them in, you know, give them some autonomy, right? Don't micromanage price and value their inputs genuinely. It's changes the whole dynamic.

Christian Wiese 40:29

They work from early in the morning until late at night if we need to produce something because they believe in, right?

Brandon Handley 40:38

Yeah. No, that's true. That's true. I wanted to hit you know, two more things here. The bliss point, you know, I think that's an interesting concept and idea, what would you you know, what would you say that that is, is there a specific one, there's definitely been numbers thrown about there. How can you tell that you are As your bliss point,

Christian Wiese 41:02

it's very complicated, then I do think you sometimes need a coach like you for that. Because you shouldn't short sell yourself. You shouldn't say all text is not good for me. That's what the book said, Oh, I shouldn't be greedy and shouldn't earn money. And I hate those capitalists who have that big house and right. No, that's a lot of repression in debts knew it could be true for some, maybe there are some monks, but there's a lot of repression. And I don't think that's spirituality at all. I think, again, going back to the young example, first you try to assert yourself, you say, I need a loving companion, I need a worker I can really express myself. I like because it's and I like big cars and I like to have a motorcycle. I want to have those three things. And then you try to try for 10 years. 15 years, maybe After the changes, you know what? I now understand the trade off. Yes, I could earn money but it doesn't give me meaning. Or maybe it's the kind of well I earn a lot of money and it gives me so much meaning. We can't say what happened to an individual, but everybody has to try to so the way I would put it is everybody has to create a garden, you know, the Garden of Eden, your own personal garden, and you figure out over the decades what it really is, that is important. We, of course, family men. I mean, to me, family is everything. No. But we both love creative expression and connecting with others.

Brandon Handley 42:39

Yeah, listen, I mean, that's that for me is so huge, right? I you know, we you said, you know, so we've used the word creative and creativity so often through here, you know, I think a lot of people are under the mistaken impression that creativity can only be applied to painting or drawing or writing? Where else can it be applied from your from your perspective?

Christian Wiese 43:05

Well, I was at work, as I said, I started out as an economist, but then I realized if I just put out an economic forecast, people say very interesting, but how can I make money? And you know, then you say, Okay, well, how can I help them making money and then you go into the direction of well, it's all psychology. As long as that line goes down, people are depressed, but the moment when it stops going down, that's the moment when markets get exciting. So it was about psychology about getting appealed for short term forecasts and how it can, can use it. And the most wonderful transition happened over those 20 years. 10 years I spent as a scientist, right. And then 10 years I spent as an artist, because then certainly when I came to psychology, it's but above feeling when it came to those lines that went up and down was literally taking the pencil thing I have a hunch that over the next couple of months, we will start seeing this. And I literally became an artist of have better pattern recognition is is as much an art as a science. And I immediately went into the artists position. So Can anybody be creative at Walmart? I don't know. You know, sometimes we have to leave certain places. But Can everybody within that job description can find ways to connect more to be more creative to really express themselves? Absolutely. Because I lifted I learned about I needed a long time for that, I hope with your help other people that can do it faster. I literally needed 10 years. But it's been a long time now, because I went from the left part of the brain to the right part of the brain. And you literally have to restructure your neurons to be to come out on the other side.

Brandon Handley 44:55

Now for sure, for sure. And I think Well, I think that with technology Today, not necessarily the, you know, compute power or any of these other things, but with the ability to listen to audios and go out and find what it is that is striking your chord. And you can go and you can do, you can build those neuron paths quickly. I pray, you can build this neuron pass quickly. So the others I asked about, like, you know, kind of, and I appreciate, you know, how you applied like the artistry to to your work and you became an artist in that space. But one of the, you know, you ended it with like, you know, the person at Walmart, can they be creative? Can they become an artist? I say yes, in the sense of, they create the experience. Right? You know, how do you create meaning in what it is that you do and the example that I use years ago, for me, was when I was banging around on Excel spreadsheets and press n Buttons every day as a man, all I do is I show it to work, I bang bang around on this machine, I press buttons, I say, what what are you really doing? And what am I really doing? And, you know, so for me, I was selling to a large service provider at that time. And I thought about the, the idea of what I was doing was enabling all the bits and zeros in like, everywhere that was happening because the work that I was doing was directly touching almost every bit of zero that you know, covered at least east coast. So, and, you know, I was like, well, who's at the end of the end of that today? I'm creating relationships today I'm enabling, you know, these things. So, I would say, you know, for the person that is at Walmart, and if they can create a happy experience that they can help somebody locate, you know, maybe racquetball for whatever for that person's dog. They're creating an experience and so they are In essence creating, it's your willingness to recognize your creative capacity.

Christian Wiese 47:06

That's right. I have a beautiful story that I share in the upcoming book, which will come out maybe later this year, early next year. It's called the daymaker. Did you hear that story? Now? Tell me about it. Okay, so there was a guy who was flying business class from Australia. And he was flying business class and he was sitting next to and you know, one of those very serious business type people and, and, and the guy said, so what do you do for a living? He said, Oh, I'm a daymaker. The guy looked at him as a daymaker. What are you okay, so it turns out, he was a hairdresser. But he said he had so much fun doing it and he had so much energy that, that he, you know, emitted in a sense he was doing He was making the day for people. And initially when you had to start this out a very interesting UI opinion of themselves, but then the start continues and says one day he was in this in a shop and a woman came one customer, she came two weeks ahead of schedule, it's out. Can you speak to me in Excel? Absolutely. And he said on that day, they both had a lot of fun developing support, and he presumed that she had a special event that you had to go through. So you know, they spent an hour together and then she went off. And a week later, she got a he got a letter from her saying that on that day, she actually wanted to commit suicide, but she kind of wanted to look good. And by just hanging out with that guy and feeling his energy, and you know, she always liked him, he decided not to. So you know, that really gives meaning to the word daymaker. And I think very much like your spiritual experience to see ones and zeros. If we just if we just start To remind ourselves what kind of input we have, right? I think that already would be out of this point.

Brandon Handley 49:06

Yeah, yeah. No, I love that story because the impact that you're having is so much greater than, than you're giving yourself credit for. That's right, right. That's wrong. So well, you know, so you've got the two books, you've got the way of the Meister that's out. You have the experience. Experiment. What's the other one? Because a magnificent experiment, magnificent experiment. And now you've got another one coming out. Yeah. What's up? Do you have a you have a working title yet?

Christian Wiese 49:34

Yeah, actually, we have a couple of books. So I mentioned my partner, we want to open a spiritual center and, and she has a mentor in Cape Town. And, and she has translated a book that deals with chick Gong. So the energy dynamics and we put out that that book because I think it really is addresses an area that that in our in our industry, I was almost tempted to say in our you know, in our profession is often overlooked the feelings of power feelings. So literally to understand the feelings that are going through it and having method of dealing with them. So that's one very exciting book, The title is letting go release your suffering. Okay. The other book is a little bit more into the philosophical direction that I started to discuss here a little bit. It's kind of what is religious state of no self, it's really the ultimate freedom so that the title of the book is breaking free. So really the discussing the next step in the spiritual journey that happens to everyone, which is just in a sense, becoming part of a bigger oneness, which itself increasingly being, you know, out of the picture, which is really a lot of fun.

Brandon Handley 50:54

Right, right. I mean, once you remove yourself and you know, I talked about it without One of my first podcasts is kind of letting go and letting God

Christian Wiese 51:02

Right. Yeah. Right. Same idea. Right. Do you want to talk

Brandon Handley 51:08

about spiritual center at all? I just got coming up. How's that looking for you? I think it's super exciting for you. How's it? How's that? How's that feel?

Christian Wiese 51:14

Yeah, so we got a little delayed with the COVID crisis, because, you know, meditation is all about hanging out with each other. We haven't done anything. She sits in Washington, DC. So the hope is we start something in Washington, DC, but we will only get a reading on that next year. Okay. This is just about getting the book out and hopefully, we'll build some momentum.

Brandon Handley 51:38

Awesome. I love it. I love it. So I think I think the book, both ones I've read, I've enjoyed and I think that they've helped me on my spiritual journey. They've helped me to, you know, see how you've gone through it right because others other Listen, people have gone through what you're going through for any listener out there, right. So no matter what you think you're going through Somebody has gone through this, you're not the first you won't be the last. That's right. It is a it is a wonderful, crazy experience. But there are people like, you know, I can reach out to Christian if I'm going through something and just talk about it right? And he's gone through it. A lot of the stuff that I've gone through or you're very good at helping give me direction at least feel like hey, maybe not me, but maybe maybe go you know, look in this area, here's, you know.

Unknown Speaker 52:27

And so

Brandon Handley 52:29

by reading your books, I can kind of see where my journey is going. And so I really enjoy that. So thank you for writing these books. Thanks you for sharing with with not just me, but with others, right? Your journey has been very, very helpful. Where should we send people to go kind of find you and get in contact with you?

Christian Wiese 52:47

No, I think the best way I mean, you can find me on Facebook, but otherwise, the best way is really my website. It's w w w dot Christian and then my middle initial which is m which is also the maesteg And then my last name visa.com. And they can find everything access to the books and to the block and and also to somebody who wants to work with me my services. So that's the best way of

Brandon Handley 53:15

awesome thanks for hanging out today.

Christian Wiese 53:16

Thank you so much for this