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b"EMP\\u2019s retreats for 2021 are live! Return to the Source has already sold out but there are spots left for the Autumn Retreat, don\\u2019t miss your spot. \\n\\n\\U0001f449 Want to join us on Zoom for a LIVE airing of an EMP Podcast? https://cart.evolvemoveplay.com/plus/ \\n\\nOnce a month, we\\u2019ll be holding live conversations that you can be a part of! \\n\\nWith EMP Podcast Plus, you\\u2019ll get a members-only \\u201cbackstage pass\\u201d and exclusive access to:\\n\\U0001f534 Monthly LIVE Zoom calls with Rafe Kelley & EMP Podcast guests\\n\\U0001f399 Ask your Questions Live to Movement + Meaning Experts after the show\\n\\U0001f4ac Access to EMP\\u2019s distraction-free movement discussion community\\n\\U0001f4f9 Exclusive Monthly Response video from Rafe to member questions\\n\\U0001f45f Movement Challenges for your Daily Practice!\\nand so much more...\\n\\nWe hope to see you soon in our thriving movement community! \\n\\nJust hit the link below to chat with us between shows and in the next live episode!\\n\\U0001f449 Join on https://cart.evolvemoveplay.com/plus/ \\n\\n============\\n\\nIf you have been following my discussion with John Vervaeke and Paul Vander Klay you have probably heard me mention Jonathan Pageau. Pageau is an Icon Carver by trade, a commentator on symbolism on youtube and devout Eastern Orthodox Christian. \\n\\nI met Pageau in 2017 at a Jordan Peterson speaking event. Jonathan was also a speaker there going over how art reveals patterns of being. \\n\\nHonestly, at the time I had no idea what he was talking about, but Jonathan would end up doing a number of dialogues with Jordan and responses to his videos. I followed his work because as someone coming to Jordan\\u2019s work from an atheist perspective I wanted to understand how it was being interpreted from the religious side, this was the same reason I followed Paul Vander Klay. When Pageau started engaging in Dialogues with John Vervaeke, I started to gain a deeper understanding of his approach and a better appreciation for his insights. \\n\\nIn the process of my conversations with Paul Vander Klay and John Vervaeke I became increasingly interested in getting the chance to dialogue with Jonathan and understand his perspective more directly. \\n\\nI was especially intrigued for this interview after watching Jonathan's discussions with Rationality Rules and Adam Friend, who were both Atheist rationalists. I thought the conversations took interesting directions but suffered from being unable to accept each other's frames. I hoped I could manage that better and I believe I did. \\n\\nThis turned out to be a fantastic and intriguing discussion for me that covered a lot of ground and established some good underlying foundations to bridge the mythological and scientific world view. \\n\\nThere was a point near the end beyond which we could not progress but I believe that in getting there, much was gained. \\n\\nI look forward very much to your feedback on this episode and the others we\\u2019ve had like it. \\n\\n\\n============\\n\\nLearn More about Jonathan Pageau\\nWeb: https://thesymbolicworld.com\\nYoutube: https://www.youtube.com/c/JonathanPageau/\\nTwitter: https://twitter.com/PageauJonathan\\n\\n============\\n\\nBooks in this episode:\\nMaps of Meaning: Jordan Peterson\\nhttps://amzn.to/3vls7NF\\nThe Righteous Mind: Jonathan Haidt\\nhttps://amzn.to/34eYBNN\\nSpell of the Sensuous \\nhttps://amzn.to/33wICds\\n\\nBlogs mentioned\\nThe godlessness that failed\\nhttps://slatestarcodex.com/2019/10/30/new-atheism-the-godlessness-that-failed\\nI can tolerate anything except the outgroup\\nhttps://slatestarcodex.com/2014/09/30/i-can-tolerate-anything-except-the-outgroup/\\n\\n============\\n\\n\\U0001f464 VISIT US ONLINE\\n- EMP Website: https://www.evolvemoveplay.com\\n- EMP Shop: https://shop.evolvemoveplay.com\\n- IG: @RafeKelly - http://www.instagram.com/rafekelley/ \\n- FB: @RafeKelleyMovement - https://www.facebook.com/RafeKelleyMovement/\\n- Twitter: @rafekelley - https://twitter.com/rafekelley\\n- YT Subscribe: https://www.youtube.com/user/Faelcind?sub_confirmation=1\\n- Become a Patron: https://www.patreon.com/rafekelley\\n============"