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Drew Train was a rising star on Madison Avenue, working at the legendary J Walter Thompson agency for clients like HSBC, one of the biggest banks in the world.

But at night, he was going to Occupy Wall Street rallies.

That\'s because he thought something had gone very wrong with business: it was extracting more from the world than it was putting back, and benefiting the rich over everyone else.

Eventually, he couldn\'t stand the tension between his day job and his values, and he ended up leaving J Walter Thompson to co-found a new agency, Oberland, with Bill Oberlander, himself a highly successful ad veteran who had designed campaigns for clients like Target and Snapple.

At Oberland, Drew and Bill work with nonprofits, like The Nature Conservancy, and for-profits, like the Blue Man Group. But increasingly, they believe there\'ll be less difference between the two: all for-profit businesses will have to be socially responsible, or risk going out of business \\u2014 and quite possibly taking the whole system down with them.

In this episode, Drew tells host Spencer Critchley why business as usual won\'t work any more and describes what\'s coming next.

Find more info and episode links at dastardlycleverness.com.