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b'Allan and Darren welcome Dr Heather Smith PSM to the podcast. Until January 2020, Heather was Secretary of the Department of Industry, Innovation and Science, which followed serving as Secretary of the Department of Communications and the Arts. Before that she was a Deputy Secretary in the Department of Prime Minister and Cabinet (including serving as G20 Sherpa in 2014 when Australia held the G20 Presidency) and the Department of Foreign Affairs and Trade, as well as a Deputy Director General in the Office of National Assessments. She has also held senior jobs in Treasury, the Reserve Bank of Australia, and the Australian National University.\\nThe interview begins with the G20, which has not performed well during the Covid-19 crisis. Is it salvageable, and what concrete things should Australia be advocating for? What else can Australia do to help our regional partners during this unprecedented crisis?\\nDarren shifts the conversation to industrial policy\\u2014the topic of Heather\\u2019s economics PhD thesis! How does she understand advocacy across the West for a more active state, and how is Australia positioned? Notwithstanding the vulnerabilities exposed by Covid-19, is resilience in our supply chains even realistic? And how does she view the expanding concept of national security, especially as it applies to critical technologies?\\nThe conversation turns to the rise of populism\\u2014to what extent is economic grievance the major driver, and does Covid-19 offer a chance to \\u201creset\\u201d public policy in its aftermath?\\nAllan then asks Heather, who holds a PhD in economics, what she as an economist is most likely to get wrong when observing and analysing the world? And as a non-economist, what is the thing she\\u2019s most likely to miss?\\nFinally, Heather, Allan and Darren all take turns in answering the question: what do you expect to be different in Australia\\u2019s world after Covid-19?\\nAs always, we invite our listeners to email us at this address: australia.world.pod@gmail.com We welcome feedback, requests and suggestions. You can also contact Darren on twitter @limdarrenj\\nWe thank AIIA intern Maddie Gordon for her help with research and audio editing and Rory Stenning for composing our theme music.\\nRelevant links\\nHeather Smith, \\u201cDoing policy differently\\u201d, Keynote Address, Institute of Public Administration Australia, 22 March 2018: https://vs286790.blob.core.windows.net/docs/Transcript_Doing%20Policy%20Differently_Dr%20Heather%20Smith_22%20March%202018.pdf\\nHeather Smith and Allan Gyngell, \\u201cTechnology will unite the post-virus world order\\u201d, Australian Financial Review, 23 April 2020: https://www.afr.com/policy/economy/technology-will-unite-the-post-virus-world-order-20200422-p54m4v'